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by S_Walch
Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:13 pm
Forum: General Discussion
Topic: sabbath in Exodus 31:13 and Ezekiel 20:20
Replies: 4
Views: 212

Re: sabbath in Exodus 31:13 and Ezekiel 20:20

Perhaps Jonathan, but most people (even the ancients) stick to their own personal spelling and writing patterns. So if Ezekiel used the plene spelling in several places, then there's not a good reason to think that he doesn't do so consistently. The supposed defective spelling שבתת only appears twic...
by S_Walch
Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:03 pm
Forum: General Discussion
Topic: שלום in Jeremiah 4:10
Replies: 114
Views: 1386

Re: שלום in Jeremiah 4:10

I know you're replying to numerous persons at once, Karl, so please bear with me as I continue to do so myself :) Seriously, I’ve become a lot more sensitive to spellings and the meanings that they imply over the last few years. It’s given me more respect for the consonantal text and a recognition t...
by S_Walch
Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:23 pm
Forum: General Discussion
Topic: שלום in Jeremiah 4:10
Replies: 114
Views: 1386

Re: שלום in Jeremiah 4:10

I agree. Connected with that is what is the form of the Hiphil? Depends on whether we're talking plene or defective spellings :p Though I would usually expect the plene with the hiphil - השיאני (Gen 3:13). Yes, this is the Western, English understanding of passive. We have a binary system, where a ...
by S_Walch
Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:27 pm
Forum: General Discussion
Topic: שלום in Jeremiah 4:10
Replies: 114
Views: 1386

Re: שלום in Jeremiah 4:10

Seems to me that the understanding of the hophal is what's causing most of the confusion here. Gonna use the examples in English, as we're more or less going to understand them better (or at least I am!). For most, the hophal doesn't indicate passive action, but the passive voice of the causative ac...
by S_Walch
Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:46 pm
Forum: General Discussion
Topic: שלום in Jeremiah 4:10
Replies: 114
Views: 1386

Re: שלום in Jeremiah 4:10

How is everyone here understanding the 'passive'? … Just clarifying, as I'm getting a bit confused with everything that's being said :) I don’t blame you, because there are two issues being discussed: 1) the passive and 2) the causative. As I understand Avichai, as well as the Masoretes who applied...
by S_Walch
Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:40 pm
Forum: General Discussion
Topic: שלום in Jeremiah 4:10
Replies: 114
Views: 1386

Re: שלום in Jeremiah 4:10

How is everyone here understanding the 'passive'? In most understandings of grammar, the passive is when the "subject 'undergoes', 'experiences', or 'receives' the action denoted by the verb." ( Oxford Dictionary of English Grammar, 2nd Edition, 2014 ). I take it therefore that in Lev 9:17...
by S_Walch
Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:30 pm
Forum: General Discussion
Topic: שלום in Jeremiah 4:10
Replies: 114
Views: 1386

Re: שלום in Jeremiah 4:10

That to me seems to be an attempt to explain how the supposedly accusative-object marker is being used with the subject of a verb - we have an unmentioned messenger going and getting them, and bringing them back to Pharaoh. Though even in this case, a passive verb wouldn't make sense (the messenger ...
by S_Walch
Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:35 pm
Forum: General Discussion
Topic: שלום in Jeremiah 4:10
Replies: 114
Views: 1386

Re: שלום in Jeremiah 4:10

Enjoying our discourse here, Jonathan :) ἐβαρύνθη ἡ καρδία Φαραώ translates a qal stative of כבד just as well, so looking for a hophal here seems superfluous and forced. That is probably so (aorist tense is used mainly to express the stative, IIRC, which this verb is), but I'm trying to search throu...
by S_Walch
Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:26 pm
Forum: General Discussion
Topic: Isa 44:19
Replies: 6
Views: 235

Re: Isa 44:19

ps. your A in your first post "the numerous über-plene spellings" can you explain please As you'll be very familiar with the defective/plene spellings of words seen in the Masoretic Hebrew manuscripts, when we get to the DSS not only do we see the plene spelling of words used more frequen...
by S_Walch
Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:38 am
Forum: General Discussion
Topic: שלום in Jeremiah 4:10
Replies: 114
Views: 1386

Re: שלום in Jeremiah 4:10

I don't like see the Greek Septuagint as an evidece for a lot of things for a lot of reason first it is a translation the translation carry an independet interpretation with it and not only that it is a translation, it was made for another culture with another theology Granted, but the LXX is an es...

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