Meaning of proverbs 23: 4

[Isaac Fried]

Another thing spoken Hebrew has given up is the 'waw conversive", which, any way, converts nothing.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

[Isaac Fried]

Here is an example from Gen. 44:18
Biblical Hebrew
וַיִּגַּשׁ אֵלָיו יְהוּדָה וַיֹּאמֶר בִּי אֲדֹנִי יְדַבֶּר נָא עַבְדְּךָ דָבָר בְּאָזְנֵי אֲדֹנִי וְאַל-יִחַר אַפְּךָ בְּעַבְדֶּךָ
Educated Spoken Hebrew (as I would have said it)
אז נגש אליו יהודה ואמר: ברשותך אדוני אומר דבר באזני אדוני ואל נא תכעס עלי

Isaac Fried, Boston University

[kwrandolph]

Educated Spoken Hebrew (as I would have said it)
אז נגש אליו יהודה ואמר: ברשותך אדוני אומר דבר באזני אדוני ואל נא תכעס עלי

Isaac Fried, Boston University

Which is why if Elijah were to come back today, he wouldn’t understand what’s being spoken. Does this make sense?

“Then Judah approached unto him that he says: [a word that has no meaning in Biblical Hebrew] my lord, I should glorify an expression in the ears of my lord and please you should not grieve concerning me.”

Does this sound like the same idea?

ויגש אליו יהודה ויאמר בי אדני ידבר נא עבדך דבר באזני אדני ואל יחר אפך בעבדך  כי כמוך כפרעה

This is formal speech: a continuation of the narrative:

“And Judah approached and he said. Please my lord (an expression indicating inferior social position), please let your slave express an expression in the ears of my lord and don’t let your anger be hot against your slave, for you are like pharaoh.”

Very formal speech of a subordinate to his superior, but it would be spoken that way. That is not the way he would have spoken to his brothers, and especially not to one of his slaves. But is it not presumptuous of a modern to say that this would not have been spoken this way in this situation?

Karl W. Randolph.

[Isaac Fried]

1. "[a word that has no meaning in Biblical Hebrew]"
ברשותך = ב-רשוּת-אכה from the root רשה, 'permit, allow', as in Ezra 3:7
וַיִּתְּנוּ כֶסֶף לַחֹצְבִים וְלֶחָרָשִׁים וּמַאֲכָל וּמִשְׁתֶּה וָשֶׁמֶן לַצִּדֹנִים וְלַצֹּרִים לְהָבִיא עֲצֵי אֲרָזִים מִן הַלְּבָנוֹן אֶל יָם יָפוֹא כְּרִשְׁיוֹן כּוֹרֶשׁ מֶלֶךְ פָּרַס עֲלֵיהֶם
NIV: "Then they gave money to the masons and carpenters, and gave food and drink and olive oil to the people of Sidon and Tyre, so that they would bring cedar logs by sea from Lebanon to Joppa, as authorized by Cyrus king of Persia."

The root רשה is but a variant of רצה, 'want, wish', and ברצותך = ברשותך, 'by your wish.' Elijah, being a Hebrew speaker (speaker!) would figure out right away the meaning ofברשותך.

2. "I should glorify an expression in the ears of my lord". glorify?, glorify!? Hearing (as opposed looking at unpuctuated text) it Elijah, would understand right away what it is all about.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

[kwrandolph]

1. "[a word that has no meaning in Biblical Hebrew]"
ברשותך = ב-רשוּת-אכה from the root רשה, 'permit, allow', as in Ezra 3:7

The word actually used in Ezra 3:7 is כְּרִשְׁיוֹן, a word used nowhere else in Tanakh. In this context when writing to Jews whose mother tongue was Aramaic, this looks like an Aramaic loan word, a noun, into post-Exile Hebrew. It refers to a written decree. The closest equivalent in pre-Exile Hebrew is the word חק.

The root רשה doesn’t exist in the extent Biblical Hebrew. If it appears in a dictionary, that is because of the practice of making up roots in order to say that all Biblical words have verbal roots.

2. "I should glorify an expression in the ears of my lord". glorify?, glorify!? Hearing (as opposed looking at unpuctuated text) it Elijah, would understand right away what it is all about.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

Yes, glorify, the root is ימר which is found in Tanakh.

Elijah, who lived pre-Exile, would be lost with that modern Hebrew sentence, that is if he recognized any words because modern pronunciation is different from Biblical Hebrew.

Karl W. Randolph.

[Isaac Fried]

True, it is possible that Elijah, upon his impending arrival, would have a problem with the present day pronunciation, the same way I get lost at a Yemenite shul. But a day spent on Dizengoff Street in Tel Aviv, listening to the palaver of young Israelis, should in no time clarify to him the system.

Isaac Fried, Boston University