פִּיפִיּוֹת Isaiah 41:15

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ducky
Posts: 768
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:01 pm

Re: פִּיפִיּוֹת Isaiah 41:15

Post by ducky »

And so, this is exactly as I said before
the combinations, with בעל as their first word, represent the idea of the object and has nothing to do with physical quantity.
David Hunter
Saboi

Re: פִּיפִיּוֹת Isaiah 41:15

Post by Saboi »

Since Daniel was present between the reigns of Darius I and Artaxerxes I, then what he is describing is not a vision but instead witnessing feuds, most likely in regards the sons of Xerxes competing for succession.

Since Daniel 9 deal with Darius (Son of Xerxes), then the previous chapter is to do with Xerxes I and accordingly, Xerxes I ceased to use the title of 'king of Babylon' and instead call himself 'king of the Persians and the Medes' and aligns with Daniel 8:20 "King of Media and Persia".
Saboi

Re: פִּיפִיּוֹת Isaiah 41:15

Post by Saboi »

That aligns with πολ- 'of Size, Degree, Intensity, value, much, worth, mighty', which makes בעל and πολ an homologue, but the Gk is spelled πολ rather then βολ since Greek originally lacked 'β', so majority of word spelled with a "ב" differ or absent in its homologue. cf. בבל/πάμπολυς
ducky
Posts: 768
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:01 pm

Re: פִּיפִיּוֹת Isaiah 41:15

Post by ducky »

Hello,

What Daniel saw what a vision and it is explained before this verse and after it.
But I don't want to get into theologies issues about visions.
You can read it however you want.

Anyway, I don't understand how your comment concerns the subject that we were talking about (the definition of the word בעל).
David Hunter
Saboi

Re: פִּיפִיּוֹת Isaiah 41:15

Post by Saboi »

Polysemy (בעל שם)
- בעל/πολύς (Nahum 1:2) "much"
- בעל/βούλῃ (Joshua 15:9) "counsel"
- בעל/πόλις (2 Kings 4:42) "city" (בעל שלש/τρίς πόλις) "Tripoli"
- בעל/ἀβέλιος (Judges 9:4 ) "sun"
- בעל/πόσις (Genesis 20:3) "husband"
- בעל/ζυγός (Deuteronomy 21:3) "yoke"

בת־ערית > πτόλις > πόλις
Saboi

Re: פִּיפִיּוֹת Isaiah 41:15

Post by Saboi »

Baalbek (בעל בכות) can be πόλις Βάκχος "City of Bacchus" or φιλόβακχος "loving-bacchus" and in Hebrew interpreted as "the weeping city" located in בעמק הבכא (Psalm 84:6) "the valley of weeping".

Weeping poetically describes crying from eyes but describes juices spurting out the mulberries as they are trampled, the fruit also called 'sycomorus', a compound of שכם מורה (Genesis 12:6) and the tree so-named in 2 Samuel 5:23, בכאים cf. βάτον "bramble-tree" from πατέω/בוס (buwc) cf. יבוס היא ירושלם (Judges 19:10).

The Polysemy of בעל as confused allot of the Bible translations.
ducky
Posts: 768
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:01 pm

Re: פִּיפִיּוֹת Isaiah 41:15

Post by ducky »

Hello,

I have stopped to understand you.
you throw these words without context and you are confusing with בעל to בעל.

I showed you before the cases of בעל קרנים which says only "had (two) horns"
and the other case of בעל הבית which is The owner of the house (he who belongs the house)

in both these cases, there is no way to see it as "many"
and also all of the other cases, are to be read as they were translated, with the known meaning.

If you can't find decisive support for your claim, then you can't prove it.
And throwing words with their Greek translations (which I can't read), also doesn't help you to prove what you claim.
David Hunter
Saboi

Re: פִּיפִיּוֹת Isaiah 41:15

Post by Saboi »

Where are you getting the number two (שתי) in בעל קרנים unless you are reading קרנים as a duel that is rarely used in Biblical Hebrew.

בעל־הבית is a construct "Lord of the House" in Exodus 22:8, it translates πόσις οἰκίας but can combine into one word in Greek, δέσποτ (Despot) "master of the house" cf. שפט.

בית archaically written בת and ב/δ interchange, thus δέσποτ is probably בת־בעל in the original order. cf. מענה צמד "yoke of mules" (1 Samuel 14:14) rather then צמד־בקר "yoke of oxen" and also עד־שלל in Isaiah 33:23.
Isaac Fried
Posts: 1783
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:32 pm

Re: פִּיפִיּוֹת Isaiah 41:15

Post by Isaac Fried »

David Hunter says
I showed you before the cases of בעל קרנים which says only "had (two) horns" and the other case of בעל הבית which is The owner of the house (he who belongs the house)
I agree. בעל is 'possessor owner'.

Isaac Fried, Boston University
ducky
Posts: 768
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:01 pm

Re: פִּיפִיּוֹת Isaiah 41:15

Post by ducky »

Hello,

in one of the above posts, I wrote the case of the "two horn"
see it here
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=22252&start=40#p28028

As for בעל הבית
it is inside a verse that writes the nouns, characters, and verbs in the singular
and so the house is a single house, and the owner is a single owner

(the law itself is general of course, but the verse is written with singular words)

so are
בעל השור - a bull (Ex. 21:28)
בעל הבור - a hole (in the ground) (Ex. 21:34)
בעל האשה - a woman (21:22)

all of these nouns (bull, hole, woman) are written in this context as singular with singular verbs and so on..

I really can't understand how you read it as "many".
David Hunter
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