פִּיפִיּוֹת Isaiah 41:15

[Saboi]

One of the homonyms of בעל mean "owner" (Exodus 21:34), but that is not the definition for every instance of בעל, certainly not in names, such as בעלידע in 1 Chronicles 14:7 or הבעל in 1 Kings 18:2

In Judges 9:2, בעלי translates "men", this is πολῖται (polîtai) "freemen, citizen" and in Deuteronomy 4:3, בעל־פעור is Ἀπόλλων φοῖβος" (Apollo Phoebus) or בעל זבוב/τεττιγοφόρης in 2 Kings 1:2.

[Saboi]

Hello,

in one of the above posts, I wrote the case of the "two horn"
see it here
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=22252&start=40#p28028

As for בעל הבית
it is inside a verse that writes the nouns, characters, and verbs in the singular
and so the house is a single house, and the owner is a single owner

(the law itself is general of course, but the verse is written with singular words)

so are
בעל השור - a bull (Ex. 21:28)
בעל הבור - a hole (in the ground) (Ex. 21:34)
בעל האשה - a woman (21:22)

all of these nouns (bull, hole, woman) are written in this context as singular with singular verbs and so on..

I really can't understand how you read it as "many".

בעל השור/πάστας τοῦ ταύρου (Exodus 21:28) "owner of the bull"
בעל האשה/πόσις τοῦ γυναικό (Exodus 21:18) "husband of the woman"

The authors of the Septuagint were-able to distinguish the homonyms of בעל in Exodus 21.

[ducky]

The definition of בעל has a range and let's not talk about each and every occurrence of this word since it isn't the subject.
and by the way, this is why I wrote to you in one of my posts before that you are confusing between בעל and בעל
So now it seems that you make the distinction between them
and still they have the same range of meaning

which the example that I gave to prove you wrong are good cases that you can't ignore them.

I hope that your next comment would refer to your claim about בעל being a word with the sense of "many"
and if you can't do it, then we might end this talk because we're going nowhere.

[Saboi]

I have put allot of thought and research into the homonyms of בעל since this word as so much negative connotations attached to it and intern creates anti-sentiment towards the Phoenician culture.

Ecclesiastes 10:11
אם־ישך הנחש בלוא־לחש ואין יתרון לבעל הלשון

אם־ישך/ἐὰν δάκῃ (Subjunctive) "If bite"
הנחש/ ὁ ἔχιδνα (metaphor) "the viper"
בלוא־לחש/ἀλόγῳ "without reason/speech"
ואין יתרון/δὲ οὐκ ἑτερότης "but no otherness/difference
לבעל הלשון/πολυγλώσσῳ (metaphor) "to the manytongued/oft-repeated/speaking many tongues"

ἐὰν δάκῃ ὁ ἔχιδνα ἀλόγῳ δὲ οὐκ ἑτερότης πολυγλώσσῳ

[Isaac Fried]

1. Calling בעל האשה/πόσις τοῦ γυναικό (Exodus 21:18) "husband of the woman" is just an extra cultural gesture. Today a liberated woman calls her husband (house-bound?) בן זוּגי, and a man says בת זוּגי .
2. The בַּעַל הַלָּשׁוֹן of Ecclesiastes 10:11 is a possessor of a flexible, or sharp, tongue. Namely, an astute talker.
3. בַּעֲלֵי שְׁכֶם of Judges 9:2 are the people who literally own the city.
4. בעל as in בעל זבוב is the worshiped alpha goat BAAL.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

[ducky]

בעל הלשון represents the "speaking" man
therefore the man is called only as "He who has a tongue".
Because this is his essence in the idea of this verse.

As for the meaning, I'll write here two.

1. Some read the first part as a question that its answer is negative.
Would a snake bites if he didn't whisper first?
and the answer is:
No! A snake bites after he "whispers".
and it comes to say that the foolish bubbler, which use his tongue a lot, has no advantage over (he's no different than) the snake, because his talk is damaging as a bite, or maybe leads to biting (greater damage).


2. Another way to read this is by first understanding the way of the ancient "snake-wizards".
the ancient wizard (in India, Persia, Canaan, Egypt, and so on) were known to have the power to "call" snakes out of their holes and make them follow them and control them and keeping their bites away.
But there were also snakes that "didn't follow" the wizards and didn't listened to their orders and so they were still biting.
Descriptions of These kinds of "rebellion" snakes can be found in other verses as:

Ps. 58 5-6 (KJV: 4-5):
"Their poison is like the poison of a serpent: they are like the deaf adder that stoppeth her ear.
Which will not hearken to the voice of charmers, charming never so wisely."
חֲמַת לָמוֹ כִּדְמוּת חֲמַת נָחָשׁ כְּמוֹ פֶתֶן חֵרֵשׁ יַאְטֵם אׇזְנוֹ

Jer. 8:17
For, behold, I will send serpents, cockatrices, among you, which will not be charmed, and they shall bite you, saith the Lord.
כִּי הִנְנִי מְשַׁלֵּחַ בָּכֶם נְחָשִׁים צִפְעֹנִים אֲשֶׁר אֵין לָהֶם לָחַשׁ וְנִשְּׁכוּ אֶתְכֶם נְאֻם י״י

And so, we back to our verse, and it is explained with this idea and says:
אם ישך הנחש בלא לחש, ואין יתרון לבעל הלשון
If the snake (already) bit the man, even before he was charmed, then what is the advantage of the charmers (those who speak the spelling).
In other words, what is the good of having a power to control a snake with a spell, if you didn't use the spell.
And this reading sees this verse as a proverb who talks about the importance of the timing. Even if you have a great talent or thought, then still, it has its right time.

And as the בעל הלשון
1. According to the first reading, it refers to the foolish babbler, which the tongue represents him - therefore he is called בעל הלשון
not because he has many tongues
but because his tongue is a "big tongue" (like people say Big Mouth)
as his tongue is the important organ for him.

2. According to the second reading, it refers to the charmer, which his way is to whisper spells.
and so, in this case, this "tongue" represents him as he who has his power in his tongue.
and so he is also seen as a "man of tongue"

[Saboi]

בעל as no association with Goats.

בעל זבוב/τεττιγοφόρης
זבוב/τέττῖξ "cicada, a winged insect fond of basking on trees"

τεττιγοφόρας means 'wearing a cicada' and the epithet of the Athenians, for in early times, they wore a golden cicada ornament in the hair and thus 2 Kings 1:2 are alluding to Athenians, this is further proven with "אלהי עקרון" (childless God). עקר/ἄκουρος means "childless, barren" (Genesis 11:30), for Athena is a virgin, a childless God, further evidence in 2 Kings 17:10 that reveals her name. את־אשימא/τὴν ἀθήνην "Athena".

[Saboi]

בלוא־לחש - "without reason" (ἀλόγῳ)

The Hebrew word for whisper is the infamous word, שטן, this is a verb in Zechariah 3:1, לשטנו that translates ψιθυρίζειν αὐτῷ "whispering to him" and השטן is ὁ ψίθυρος "the whisperer" another verb form is ויסת/ἐψιθύρισε "whisper to the ear" in 2 Samuel 24:1. the Lord... whispered to David" and this gave birth to שטן in 1 Chronicles 21:1, this is poetic between the words ψίθυρος "whisper" and ψῆφος "counting" since David was told to count and this originates the idiom in Revelation 13:18 "count the number" (ψηφισάτω τὸν ἀριθμὸν). ψηφισάτω/ויוסף. ἀριθμὸν/ראש.

*Genesis 37:2 - את־דבתם/τόν διάβολον (adj. slanderous)
*Numbers 31:21 - דבת/διαβολή (accusation)

Psalm 58:5
- לקול מלחשים/τῇ φωνῇ λεγόντων "oration, to give an account, proverb"
- חובר חברים/τοῦ ἑταίρου εταιρομένου "companion/courtesans"
- מחכם/σόφισμα "clever device, ingenious contrivance, in less good sense, sly trick, artifice"

[ducky]

Hello

I am kinda sure that you're wrong. but never mind
Let's finish our discussion.
We've said more than enough, and I'm sure we'll talk again.

[Saboi]

Jeremiah 8:7
- נחשים/ἐχίδνας "viper"
- צפענים/ὀφίδιον "small snake"

Bible translations of these nouns have different animals, however none of these words mean Serpent (KJV) and the words are metaphorical as explained in the LSJ. נחשים "Viper, metaphor of a treacherous wife or friend" further explained in Psalm 58:5. חובר "companion, comrade, courtesan".

In the Septuagint, in Jeremiah 8:7, לחש translates "Cry" and in Psalm 58:5 translates "Sing", so the word emphasises the voice/reckoning. לחש/λόγος.