גג is not "high-high' and גאה does not mean "high".
teg- "roof" as a vowel and Hebrew is written in abjad, so only the consonants, "t" and "g" are captured in גג, this was not always the case, in Linear B and Akkadian, there was a symbol for "ga, ge, gi, go, gu" and thus much easier to distinguish words and thus גג can be anything, "gag, geg, gig, gug, gog".
But with στέγος, τέγος, tego, tectum, the vowel is "έ", so borrow that. גהג and give it a case ending, גהגו, but notice that the "g" turns into "ct" in tectum and they reverse in the modern word "thatch". the letter "c" itself derives from ג. גהגו > tcetcum. "ו" is a consonant and a labial that produces "m" after the "u".
גהגום > tēctum (גג)
In Hebrew the function of vowels is taken over by points of vocalisation and they are many dialects to consider, Ashkenazi, Baghdadi, Sephardi and Yemenite.
פִּיפִיּוֹת Isaiah 41:15
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Re: פִּיפִיּוֹת Isaiah 41:15
Lee Mcgee says
הֲיִגְאֶה גֹּמֶא בְּלֹא בִצָּה יִשְׂגֶּה אָחוּ בְלִי מָיִם
NIV: "Can papyrus grow tall where there is no marsh? Can reeds thrive without water?"
KJV: "Can the rush grow up without mire? can the flag grow without water?"
Isaac Fried, Boston University
Here is what Job has to say about it. Job 8:11גאה does not mean "high
הֲיִגְאֶה גֹּמֶא בְּלֹא בִצָּה יִשְׂגֶּה אָחוּ בְלִי מָיִם
NIV: "Can papyrus grow tall where there is no marsh? Can reeds thrive without water?"
KJV: "Can the rush grow up without mire? can the flag grow without water?"
What is this "abjad", it sounds to me like something in Arabic. So you are saying that the t of teg turned into a g for the pleasure of making the Hebrew גג GAG?teg- "roof" (h?)as a vowel and Hebrew is written in abjad, so only the consonants, "t" and "g" are captured in גג.
Yes, but they are all from the root גג = גאה-גאה, 'high-high, tall-tall'.and thus גג can be anything, "gag, geg, gig, gug, gog"
I agree that thatch is related to touch (so say now that גג = נגע-נגע). But, I have never seen before no גהג and no גהגו.But with στέγος, τέγος, tego, tectum, the vowel is "έ", so borrow that. גהג and give it a case ending, גהגו, but notice that the "g" turns into "ct" in tectum and they reverse in the modern word "thatch". the letter "c" itself derives from ג. גהגו > tcetcum. "ו" is a consonant and a labial that produces "m" after the "u".
Isaac Fried, Boston University
Re: פִּיפִיּוֹת Isaiah 41:15
Since all the vowels in English are themselves derived from the Phoenician alphabet that the Hebrew language is written in, then i convert גג into גהג (geg), since the letter "E" came from ה.
Job 8:11 - can the rush grow without water.
Did not take long to figure this out, the root of היגאה is דגה (dagah) "grow". Note that the verb in Job 8:11 is subjunctive and translates into τίκτῃ (verb 3rd sg pres subj).
דגה/τίκτω "of vegetable produce, to bear, produce, generate".
Job 8:11 - can the rush grow without water.
Did not take long to figure this out, the root of היגאה is דגה (dagah) "grow". Note that the verb in Job 8:11 is subjunctive and translates into τίκτῃ (verb 3rd sg pres subj).
דגה/τίκτω "of vegetable produce, to bear, produce, generate".
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Re: פִּיפִיּוֹת Isaiah 41:15
I could swear that in another thread you were a fan of Mr. Fried's etymological philosophy.Saboi wrote:גג is not "high-high' and גאה does not mean "high".
As it is, though, גאה does indeed refer to exaltation. Do you not know the Song of the Sea?
אָשִׁ֤ירָה לֽיהוה֙ כִּֽי־גָאֹ֣ה גָּאָ֔ה
I will sing to YHWH for he is highly exalted.
If that doesn't mean "high," I don't know what does.
That sounds a little convoluted. What do you mean when you say that the function of vowels is taken over by points of vocalization? The function is taken over? Do you think that Hebrew without nikud doesn't have vowels?Saboi wrote:In Hebrew the function of vowels is taken over by points of vocalisation and they are many dialects to consider, Ashkenazi, Baghdadi, Sephardi and Yemenite.
Jason Hare
Tel Aviv, Israel
The Hebrew Café
יוֹדֵ֣עַ צַ֭דִּיק נֶ֣פֶשׁ בְּהֶמְתּ֑וֹ וְֽרַחֲמֵ֥י רְ֝שָׁעִ֗ים אַכְזָרִֽי׃
ספר משלי י״ב, י׳
Tel Aviv, Israel
The Hebrew Café
יוֹדֵ֣עַ צַ֭דִּיק נֶ֣פֶשׁ בְּהֶמְתּ֑וֹ וְֽרַחֲמֵ֥י רְ֝שָׁעִ֗ים אַכְזָרִֽי׃
ספר משלי י״ב, י׳
- Jason Hare
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Re: פִּיפִיּוֹת Isaiah 41:15
This has my head spinning. It's like gibberish.Isaac Fried wrote:I agree that thatch is related to touch (so say now that גג = נגע-נגע). But, I have never seen before no גהג and no גהגו.
Jason Hare
Tel Aviv, Israel
The Hebrew Café
יוֹדֵ֣עַ צַ֭דִּיק נֶ֣פֶשׁ בְּהֶמְתּ֑וֹ וְֽרַחֲמֵ֥י רְ֝שָׁעִ֗ים אַכְזָרִֽי׃
ספר משלי י״ב, י׳
Tel Aviv, Israel
The Hebrew Café
יוֹדֵ֣עַ צַ֭דִּיק נֶ֣פֶשׁ בְּהֶמְתּ֑וֹ וְֽרַחֲמֵ֥י רְ֝שָׁעִ֗ים אַכְזָרִֽי׃
ספר משלי י״ב, י׳
- Jason Hare
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Re: פִּיפִיּוֹת Isaiah 41:15
My goodness!! You guys talking to each other simply set my mind into a tailspin. Where do you come up with this stuff!?!Saboi wrote:Since all the vowels in English are themselves derived from the Phoenician alphabet that the Hebrew language is written in, then i convert גג into גהג (geg), since the letter "E" came from ה.
Job 8:11 - can the rush grow without water.
Did not take long to figure this out, the root of היגאה is דגה (dagah) "grow". Note that the verb in Job 8:11 is subjunctive and translates into τίκτῃ (verb 3rd sg pres subj).
דגה/τίκτω "of vegetable produce, to bear, produce, generate".
Jason Hare
Tel Aviv, Israel
The Hebrew Café
יוֹדֵ֣עַ צַ֭דִּיק נֶ֣פֶשׁ בְּהֶמְתּ֑וֹ וְֽרַחֲמֵ֥י רְ֝שָׁעִ֗ים אַכְזָרִֽי׃
ספר משלי י״ב, י׳
Tel Aviv, Israel
The Hebrew Café
יוֹדֵ֣עַ צַ֭דִּיק נֶ֣פֶשׁ בְּהֶמְתּ֑וֹ וְֽרַחֲמֵ֥י רְ֝שָׁעִ֗ים אַכְזָרִֽי׃
ספר משלי י״ב, י׳
Re: פִּיפִיּוֹת Isaiah 41:15
I am not a philosopher or a theologian, i am interesting in Biblical Hebrew as a Phoenician language, the instances of גאה are not translated into words that mean "high" in the Septuagint, but usually as an adjectives and "high" is metaphorical and not literal.
In Exodus 15:1, כי־גאה גאה translates ἐνδόξως γὰρ δεδόξασται.
- ἔνδοξος - Held in high esteem, from δόξα "of external appearance, glory, splendour"-
- Ezekiel 47:5, כי־גאו > ἐξύβριζεν "break out"
The Septuagint was written by Jews, so a much more accurate picture of Biblical Hebrew.
With גג/tego, i also notice that Latin is the suffix of "protego" that derives "protect" and this is the same Latin used in the Vulgar that translates מגן and גנן.
Genesis 15:1 - אנכי מגן לך (I am thy shield) "ego protector tuus"
Isaiah 37:35 - וגנותי על־העיר (I will defend this city) > "et protegam civitatem"
Psalm 102:7 - על־גג (upon the roof) > "super tectum"
This would conclude that גנן "cover" roots גג "roof".
In Exodus 15:1, כי־גאה גאה translates ἐνδόξως γὰρ δεδόξασται.
- ἔνδοξος - Held in high esteem, from δόξα "of external appearance, glory, splendour"-
- Ezekiel 47:5, כי־גאו > ἐξύβριζεν "break out"
The Septuagint was written by Jews, so a much more accurate picture of Biblical Hebrew.
With גג/tego, i also notice that Latin is the suffix of "protego" that derives "protect" and this is the same Latin used in the Vulgar that translates מגן and גנן.
Genesis 15:1 - אנכי מגן לך (I am thy shield) "ego protector tuus"
Isaiah 37:35 - וגנותי על־העיר (I will defend this city) > "et protegam civitatem"
Psalm 102:7 - על־גג (upon the roof) > "super tectum"
This would conclude that גנן "cover" roots גג "roof".
- Jason Hare
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Re: פִּיפִיּוֹת Isaiah 41:15
Just curious... do you think that we have any idea who translated what is now called the Septuagint? Do you think that we know their standing or their pedigree?Saboi wrote:The Septuagint was written by Jews, so a much more accurate picture of Biblical Hebrew.
Jason Hare
Tel Aviv, Israel
The Hebrew Café
יוֹדֵ֣עַ צַ֭דִּיק נֶ֣פֶשׁ בְּהֶמְתּ֑וֹ וְֽרַחֲמֵ֥י רְ֝שָׁעִ֗ים אַכְזָרִֽי׃
ספר משלי י״ב, י׳
Tel Aviv, Israel
The Hebrew Café
יוֹדֵ֣עַ צַ֭דִּיק נֶ֣פֶשׁ בְּהֶמְתּ֑וֹ וְֽרַחֲמֵ֥י רְ֝שָׁעִ֗ים אַכְזָרִֽי׃
ספר משלי י״ב, י׳
Re: פִּיפִיּוֹת Isaiah 41:15
During the Hellenic period, the Jews produced the Septuagint, Sirach (Ben-Sira), Maccabees and later, Philo, Josephus and the New Testament, there is whole aspect of the Jewish culture to tap into. Ancient Egyptian language was deciphered through Greek with the Rosetta stone that presents the same text written in two languages and this alike the Septuagint and the Hebrew Scripture, that is the method i use when defining Hebrew words rather then relying on biased Lexicons.Jason Hare wrote:Just curious... do you think that we have any idea who translated what is now called the Septuagint? Do you think that we know their standing or their pedigree?Saboi wrote:The Septuagint was written by Jews, so a much more accurate picture of Biblical Hebrew.
- Jason Hare
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Re: פִּיפִיּוֹת Isaiah 41:15
(1) What we call the Septuagint today is not the Septuagint that Ptolemy wrote about. "The Jews" is not an identification of the authors.Saboi wrote:During the Hellenic period, the Jews produced the Septuagint, Sirach (Ben-Sira), Maccabees and later, Philo, Josephus and the New Testament, there is whole aspect of the Jewish culture to tap into. Ancient Egyptian language was deciphered through Greek with the Rosetta stone that presents the same text written in two languages and this alike the Septuagint and the Hebrew Scripture, that is the method i use when defining Hebrew words rather then relying on biased Lexicons.
(2) The Greek text is not always a literal translation of the Hebrew; therefore, trying to establish one-for-one equivalents is NOT the best way to get at the meaning of any given Hebrew word.
(3) Hebrew stands on its own without Greek to prop it up.
Jason Hare
Tel Aviv, Israel
The Hebrew Café
יוֹדֵ֣עַ צַ֭דִּיק נֶ֣פֶשׁ בְּהֶמְתּ֑וֹ וְֽרַחֲמֵ֥י רְ֝שָׁעִ֗ים אַכְזָרִֽי׃
ספר משלי י״ב, י׳
Tel Aviv, Israel
The Hebrew Café
יוֹדֵ֣עַ צַ֭דִּיק נֶ֣פֶשׁ בְּהֶמְתּ֑וֹ וְֽרַחֲמֵ֥י רְ֝שָׁעִ֗ים אַכְזָרִֽי׃
ספר משלי י״ב, י׳