פִּיפִיּוֹת Isaiah 41:15

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Saboi

Re: פִּיפִיּוֹת Isaiah 41:15

Post by Saboi »

The change from בעל to בשת is dialectic, since בעל "Spouse" is πόσις, the homologue of בשת.

בעל an homonym means ἥλιος/ἀβέλιος "sun" and בשת of αἰδώς/αἰσχύνῃ "shame" hence the confusion.

Why would Gideon and the sons of Saul and Johnathan be referred to by ignominious aliases, this is not the fault of the text, but the poorly thought out lexicon, according to the Lexicon, מפיבשת means "exterminating the idol"

בעל/אל "Sun"
Judges 9:4 - בית בעל ברית
Judges 9:46 - בית אל ברית
Genesis 14:18 - אל עליון
Judges 7:1 - ירבעל
2 Samuel 11:21 - ירבשת, the LXX as Ιεροβααλ/ירבעל, the correct reading.

יר, ביר מרי, פי, מפי are prepositions.
- ירבעל = περί ἡλίου or ἰρήν ἡλίου

These compounds are surnames of persons initiated in Baal worship or dedicated to his service or an acolyte.

ἀμφί (פי) means 'both sides, around, of persons grouped about one"
ample is a compound so in ancient Hebrew it be written פימלא "full of both sides"

You are confusing the compound with its preposition.
Isaac Fried
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Re: פִּיפִיּוֹת Isaiah 41:15

Post by Isaac Fried »

Lee Mcgee says
The change from בעל to בשת is dialectic, since בעל "Spouse" is πόσις, the homologue of בשת.
בעל an homonym means ἥλιος/ἀβέλιος "sun" and בשת of αἰδώς/αἰσχύνῃ "shame" hence the confusion.
I freely admit that I am indeed confused about the "dialectic" "homologues" and "homonyms" ἀβέλιος and αἰσχύνῃ, namely, the Hellenic pair אבליוס and סיסחונה.
בעל = בא-על is the tall, superior, looming, mounting, alpha male of the goats. He is also the procreator and thus deserves worship.
As for בּוֹשֶת, consider the crude and angry denunciation found in 1Sam. 20:30
וַיִּחַר אַף שָׁאוּל בִּיהוֹנָתָן וַיֹּאמֶר לוֹ בֶּן נַעֲוַת הַמַּרְדּוּת הֲלוֹא יָדַעְתִּי כִּי בֹחֵר אַתָּה לְבֶן יִשַׁי לְבָשְׁתְּךָ וּלְבֹשֶׁת עֶרְוַת אִמֶּךָ

Isaac Fried, Boston University
Saboi

Re: פִּיפִיּוֹת Isaiah 41:15

Post by Saboi »

Homonyms are words spelled the same but have different meanings and etymologies.

בשת
1. πόσις 'a husband, spouse, mate'
2. φύσις 'one's nature, of the female organ'
3. αἰσχύνῃ 'shame, dishonour, dishonouring of women'
4. αἰδώς 'reverence, awe, shame, scandal'

בשת/αἰσχύνῃ is confirmed in Hosea 10:6 that accounts the 'ν' in the homologue, בשנה/αἰσχύνῃ.
Isaac Fried
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Re: פִּיפִיּוֹת Isaiah 41:15

Post by Isaac Fried »

Lee Mcgee says
Homonyms are words spelled the same but have different meanings and etymologies.
May we have some Hebrew (Hebrew! not Greek of which I know nothing) Homonym nouns and verbs.

Isaac Fried, Boston University
Saboi

Re: פִּיפִיּוֹת Isaiah 41:15

Post by Saboi »

They are no diacritics in Ancient Hebrew thus how can you distinguish these homonyms without a reference.

ערב - freight (Ezekiel 27:9)
ערב - crow (Genesis 8:7 )
ערב - reptile (Exodus 8:21)
ערב - roof (Leviticus 23:40)
ערב - desolate (Numbers 22:1)
ערב - evening (Judges 19:9)
ערב - satisfy (Malachi 3:4)
ערב - courage (Jeremiah 30:21)
ערב - carry (Ezekiel 27:9)
ערב - protect (Genesis 43:9)
Isaac Fried
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Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:32 pm

Re: פִּיפִיּוֹת Isaiah 41:15

Post by Isaac Fried »

Lee Mcgee says
They (There) are no diacritics in Ancient Hebrew thus how can you distinguish these homonyms without a reference.

ערב - freight (Ezekiel 27:9)
ערב - crow (Genesis 8:7 )
ערב - reptile (Exodus 8:21)
ערב - roof (Leviticus 23:40)
ערב - desolate (Numbers 22:1)
ערב - evening (Judges 19:9)
ערב - satisfy (Malachi 3:4)
ערב - courage (Jeremiah 30:21)
ערב - carry (Ezekiel 27:9)
ערב - protect (Genesis 43:9)
The root ערב means: 'free, limp, loose, soft, relaxed, detached, spreadable, mixable'. All the words you list are derived from this root and they carry, every one of them, the inherent meaning of the root ערב in their DNA, so to speak.
They are individually understood by context.
We read in Leviticus 23:40
וּלְקַחְתֶּם לָכֶם בַּיּוֹם הָרִאשׁוֹן פְּרִי עֵץ הָדָר כַּפֹּת תְּמָרִים וַעֲנַף עֵץ עָבֹת וְעַרְבֵי נָחַל וּשְׂמַחְתֶּם לִפְנֵי יהוה אֱלֹהֵיכֶם שִׁבְעַת יָמִים
KJV: "And ye shall take you on the first day the boughs of goodly trees, branches of palm trees, and the boughs of thick trees, and willows of the brook; and ye shall rejoice before the Lord your God seven days"
So, ערבה = ערב-היא is apparently a bush of drooping branches. I am not sure where you got this "roof".
It is also not clear to me what you mean by the "etymology" of a Hebrew word.

Isaac Fried, Boston University
Saboi

Re: פִּיפִיּוֹת Isaiah 41:15

Post by Saboi »

In Leviticus 23:40, the word ערב is definable through όροφος (órofos) "roof, reed used for thatching houses" and this also defines the Arabic word, عَرَفَات‎ (Arafat) and ערבות in Psalm 68:4.

Euripides, Ion 82 (480-406 BCE)
Already this radiant four-horse chariot, the sun, flames over the earth, and at this fire of heaven the stars flee into the sacred night; the untrod Parnassian cliffs, shining, receive the wheel of day for mortals. The smoke of dry myrtle flies to Phoebus' roof (ὀρόφους)

ערב - όροφος

גג also means "roof" but the Strong's Lexicon is unable to find its root, "Probably by reduplication" because the word is written in abjad, but the word renders in Greek with vowels, στέγα "roof" also written τέγος "roof", Latin tego, German Decke, English thatch.
Isaac Fried
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Re: פִּיפִיּוֹת Isaiah 41:15

Post by Isaac Fried »

Lee Mcgee says
In Leviticus 23:40, the word ערב is definable through όροφος (órofos) "roof, reed used for thatching houses"
I really, really don't see how a Hebrew word such as ערב gets "defined" through a Greek word such as όροφος.
גג also means "roof" but the Strong's Lexicon is unable to find its root, "Probably by reduplication" because the word is written in abjad
The root of גג, 'roof', is גג. A Hebrew root may be of one letter, two letters, three letters, or even four letters. The root גג is a contraction of גאה-גאה, 'high-high'. It is related to the names עוֹג, גוֹג and מגוֹג.
Hebrew has now the useful word גיגית, 'large vessel, large tub', possibly from giga, as is Google.

Isaac Fried, Boston University
Saboi

Re: פִּיפִיּוֹת Isaiah 41:15

Post by Saboi »

Hebrew is not a primitive language, גג does not internally derive from גאה-גאה but since the word exists in other Mediterranean languages, τέγος (Gk) tego (Lt) then they share a unifying root.

גוג means ἀγωγός, the fuller meaning is revealed in Ezekiel 39:16 המון גוג. המון means δημόν "people, esp of soldiers thus "המון גוג" through prefix-suffix metathesis is δημαγωγός (demagogue) 'populous leader, leader of the mob' δημαγωγός > μαγωγός > מגוג. This is further affirmed later in the passage, "'the name of the city shall be Hamonah" but in the Septuagint, the name is Πολυάνδριον (polyandrion) "full of men" and also the word for a communal grave that is affirmed in Ezekiel 39:11 that reads "place of graves".

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/polyandrion

Aeschylus, Persians 532
O sovereign Zeus, by destroying the army of the haughty (πολυάνδρων) and multitudinous Persians, [535] you have shrouded in the gloom of grief the city of Susa and of Agbatana! Many a woman, who has a share in this sorrow, tears her veil with tender hands [540] and moistens with drenching tears the robe covering her bosom. And the Persian wives, indulging in soft wailing through longing to behold their lords and abandoning the daintily wrought coverlets of their couches, the delight of their youth, [545] mourn with complainings that know no end. So I too sustain the truly woeful fate of those who are gone

*Ezekiel 8:14 - behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz.

קבר/Funeris > 'Funeral
Isaac Fried
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Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:32 pm

Re: פִּיפִיּוֹת Isaiah 41:15

Post by Isaac Fried »

Lee Mcgee says
Hebrew is not a primitive language, גג does not internally derive from גאה-גאה but since the word exists in other Mediterranean languages, τέγος (Gk) tego (Lt) then they share a unifying root.
It is not clear to me what you mean by Hebrew not being a "primitive" language. Also, how τέγος (Gk) and tego (Lt) provide a "unifying root" to the Hebrew גג GAG. Greek and Latin lost their root system a long time ago, while Hebrew kept it intact to this day.
It appears to me that tego is related further to toga and tango, then to the German Dach, related in turn to the English deck, and thatch. Primitive meaning: to cover. In Hebrew, primitive meaning of גג: high-high.
קבר/Funeris > 'Funeral
קבר, 'buried, covered (a dead body) with earth' is of the root family
גבר, הבר, חבר, כבר, קבר
גפר, חפר, כפר

It is related thus to גבר, 'overcome'.

Isaac Fried, Boston University
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