Ezekiel 18 sons die for father's sins

[Kenneth Greifer]

I think Ezekiel 18 is misunderstood because the proverb in Ezekiel 18:2 says "the fathers will eat sour (unripe) grapes, and the teeth of the sons will be set on edge." This is interpreted to mean that the sons die for the sins of their fathers, and God says in the rest of Ezekiel 18 that the soul that sins will die and not the fathers for the sons or the sons for the fathers.
In Ezekiel 18:19, God says the people asked why the son does not bear the sin of the father. Then in Ezekiel 18:25, God says that the people say that God's way is not equal, but their way is not equal.
I think that the people were killing sons for the sins of their fathers against the commandment in Deuteronomy 24:16 not to do that, and God was telling them it is wrong to do that. I think it sounds like the proverb is about the people feeling that they are innocent and suffering for the sins of their fathers, but really it might mean that they actually believed in doing that, even though they were commanded not to do that.

[Kenneth Greifer]

Ezekiel 18 also says that they won't say the proverb anymore, so it sounds like God won't punish the sons for the sins of the father anymore, or it could mean that they won't kill the sons for the fathers' sins anymore. It is kind of vague.

[Jason Hare]

The question is what is meant in the Ten Commandments (as they are known) in Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5, when they say that God visits the iniquity of fathers upon children, upon the third generation, upon the fourth generation of God’s enemies? Does this mean what we normally take it to mean?

I’m now curious enough to look into some commentaries on this phrase.

[Kenneth Greifer]

Jason,
I think my idea is wrong. I think Ezekiel 18:2 says "what is to you (plural) you saying (making) this proverb...", and then God says that their proverb about the fathers eating sour or unripe grapes and the sons teeth being affected is just not true. I think He is asking why they are saying that and then He is arguing that whoever sins is the one that dies, and not the son or the father of that person.

Ezekiel 18:2 יחזקאל
18:2מַה־לָּכֶ֗ם אַתֶּם֙ מֹֽשְׁלִים֙ אֶת־הַמָּשָׁ֣ל הַזֶּ֔ה עַל־אַדְמַ֥ת יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל לֵאמֹ֑ר אָבוֹת֙ יֹ֣אכְלוּ בֹ֔סֶר וְשִׁנֵּ֥י הַבָּנִ֖ים תִּקְהֶֽינָה׃

[Kenneth Greifer]

Maybe Ezekiel 18 is like Ezekiel 12:21-28, where there is another proverb that says the visions are for far off in the future and they fail, so God says from now on the days of His word is near and the things will come true faster, so He changes what He does to end a proverb that He doesn't like in Israel.
In Ezekiel 18, they says the sons suffer for the sins of the fathers, so G-d either denies that or He changes the way things are done.

[Jason Hare]

Just in passing (from Mikra’ot Gdolot), the Rashbam stresses the word לְשֹׂנְאָי as saying that the iniquity of the fathers is carried on to the following generations because they hate God. That is, if they do not hate God (if they are repentant, etc.), then the iniquity does not get passed on. Similarly, Rashi states specifically that those descendants being mentioned are those who hold onto the same sins as their fathers with their own hands.

The passage in Ezekiel specifically mentions sons who do not continue in the sins of their fathers or who do not continue in the righteousness of their fathers. There is no “merit of the fathers” for those who are themselves evil in God’s sight, nor are the children of wicked men to be punished because their fathers were wicked.

So, I guess I’d go along with Karl’s reading of these verses.

[Jason Hare]

Perhaps Ezekiel was saying that people were wrongly saying that even righteous children would have the same moral failings as their unrighteous parents. Perhaps he was trying to disabuse them of that misconception.

[Kenneth Greifer]

The explanation that it is about the third or fourth generation of people who also hate God like their fathers is interesting. I don't know if it is true, but it is thought-provoking.

[kwrandolph]

Kenneth, it looks as if you hit the nail on the head when you wrote “of people who also hate God like their fathers”. Nowhere do we see God commanding execution of sons for their fathers’ wrongs, nor do we see God himself carrying out such an action, an example being Qorach’s sons didn’t join their father in his rebellion, nor were they executed by God with their father.

Ezekiel didn’t introduce a new teaching.

Karl W. Randolph.

[SteveMiller]

I have had trouble with these verses, and the same ones in Jer 31:29-30.
Right after them in Jer 32:18 it says that the children will suffer for the sins of the parents.
It seems that Achan's children were killed along with Achan for his sin in Josh 7:24-25.
Also Dathan and Abiram's children died with them in Num 16:26-33.
I thought maybe in the New Covenant in Jer 31:31 the generational curse is removed. But I would need another verse to confirm that, and I don't know one.