Days to Days and a Year

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Chris Watts
Posts: 235
Joined: Thu May 13, 2021 8:00 am

Days to Days and a Year

Post by Chris Watts »

Good Morning,
I have come accross this so many times that I want to ask the board for their input. Why or how did it come about that the expression "Days to Days" meant a year? Yet in other places the Hebrew for 'Year' (that is the same as the modern Hebrew word SHaNaH) is also used in scripture? (I did not think it necessary to list all the examples except one from Exodus 13:10)

וְשָׁמַרְתָּ֛ אֶת־הַחֻקָּ֥ה הַזֹּ֖את לְמוֹעֲדָ֑הּ מִיָּמִ֖ים יָמִֽימָה

Chris watts
ducky
Posts: 770
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:01 pm

Re: Days to Days and a Year

Post by ducky »

Hi Chris,

The word ימים="days" is also used as a term for a "year".

מימים ימימה = "from days to days" = from year to year = every year.

מימים = from days
ימימה is the word ימים Plus a suffix H letter - which is a directional article - (which is like replacing a prefix L)
ירושלימה = לירושלים (to Jerusalem)
ימימה = לימים (to days)

******
So you can follow the word ימים in some other verses.
For example:
Levi. 25:29 וְאִישׁ כִּי יִמְכֹּר בֵּית מוֹשַׁב עִיר חוֹמָה וְהָיְתָה גְּאֻלָּתוֹ עַד תֹּם שְׁנַת מִמְכָּרוֹ יָמִים תִּהְיֶה גְאֻלָּתוֹ
Levi. 25:30 וְאִם לֹא יִגָּאֵל עַד מְלֹאת לוֹ שָׁנָה תְמִימָה וְקָם הַבַּיִת אֲשֶׁר בָּעִיר אֲשֶׁר [לוֹ] (לא) חֹמָה לַצְּמִיתֻת לַקֹּנֶה אֹתוֹ לְדֹרֹתָיו לֹא יֵצֵא בַּיֹּבֵל

So here, for example, you can see in verse 29 that the word ימים is actually a year.
And actually is a שנה תמימה (in verse 30) - a full year - 12 months.
(To not be confused with "end of the year" - which could last less than 12 months (if the "starting point" is already close to the end).

***
There is an old article of North that claims that the word ימים doesn't come to represent a year, but a period of time of 4 months (a season of 4 months).
He explains every verse with this meaning.

This is a link to his article
https://www.jstor.org/stable/1516103
****
David Hunter
Chris Watts
Posts: 235
Joined: Thu May 13, 2021 8:00 am

Re: Days to Days and a Year

Post by Chris Watts »

Hi Ducky, Thank you, However this is precisely my point; what exactly might be the deciding factor between using one or the other words to indicate 'Year'. The fact that the two words can appear in one sentence makes it a mystery to me.
Chris watts
ducky
Posts: 770
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:01 pm

Re: Days to Days and a Year

Post by ducky »

Hi Chris,

I don't know if I got you right.

Do you ask why there are synonyms in Hebrew?
If so, just for the same reason that every language has.

About the Why write in the same sentence two different words with the same meaning...
I guess you are talking about the Levi verse that writes both שנה and ימים.
If so, I tried to write what was the reason for that.

Levi. 25:29 וְאִישׁ כִּי יִמְכֹּר בֵּית מוֹשַׁב עִיר חוֹמָה וְהָיְתָה גְּאֻלָּתוֹ עַד תֹּם שְׁנַת מִמְכָּרוֹ יָמִים תִּהְיֶה גְאֻלָּתוֹ
Levi. 25:30 וְאִם לֹא יִגָּאֵל עַד מְלֹאת לוֹ שָׁנָה תְמִימָה וְקָם הַבַּיִת אֲשֶׁר בָּעִיר אֲשֶׁר [לוֹ] (לא) חֹמָה לַצְּמִיתֻת לַקֹּנֶה אֹתוֹ לְדֹרֹתָיו לֹא יֵצֵא בַּיֹּבֵל

I wrote that the ימים here comes as clearness for the law.
So it starts by saying "עד תם שנת ממכרו" and that could be understood not as 12 months, but only until the "end of the year". So then the verse continues and clears it by saying ימים, as a term for 12 months (full year).
And then comes the next verse and says "full year" again, by using the word שנה (which was used in the previous verse in the "unclear" way).
David Hunter
Chris Watts
Posts: 235
Joined: Thu May 13, 2021 8:00 am

Re: Days to Days and a Year

Post by Chris Watts »

Hallo Ducky, some facts and observations:

1. The hebrew word translated as 'year' in the KJV appears aprox 355 times.
2. Out of those 355 the hebrew word מִיָּמִ֖ים יָמִֽימָה is used 6 times and translated as 'year', not exactly like this but I am referring to the hebrew for 'days' or days to days' where it becomes translated as 'year'.
3. Exodus 13:10 is translated as 'year to year' (Ex 23:11 we leave out since that is understandably translated as 'seventh' to mean 7th year)
4. Lev 25:29
5. Judges 17:10
6. 1 Sam 2:19
7. Num 9:22
8. 1 Sam 27:7


The last two verses are what I would like to focus on:

Numbers 9:22
אוֹ־יֹמַיִם אוֹ־חֹדֶשׁ אוֹ־יָמִים בְּהַאֲרִיךְ הֶעָנָן עַל־הַמִּשְׁכָּן לִשְׁכֹּן עָלָיו יַחֲנוּ בְנֵי־יִשְׂרָאֵל וְלֹא יִסָּעוּ וּבְהֵעָלֹתוֹ יִסָּעוּ

One should expect to read: or 'a day or a month or a year', one should surely be alerted by the reference to TWO days? Why not just the hebrew word : 'YoM', why the plural and who says it should mean TWO days? I do also notice that Hosea 6:2 has the same hebrew for 'two days'.

1 Sam 27:7
וַיְהִי מִסְפַּר הַיָּמִים אֲשֶׁר־יָשַׁב דָּוִד בִּשְׂדֵה פְלִשְׁתִּים יָמִים וְאַרְבָּעָה חֳדָשִׁים


Now there is at the beginning of this sentence the exact same word, but now being translated as 'a measure', or the word 'time'. Not to mention once again the word for 'Days' being translated as 'a year'.

I am making observations and have question marks about this, it is easy just to accept this as it is, but unfortunately I can not, something is fishy! I have no theories. I am not denying that this is indeed meant to mean 'a year', what I am asking is why? It is not a synonym, it can not be a synonym, especially in Numbers 9:22 and in 1 Samuel 27:7.

Chris watts
ducky
Posts: 770
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:01 pm

Re: Days to Days and a Year

Post by ducky »

Hi Chris

Why does ימים which is literally "days" also means "a year".

There is no "good" answer to the question of why a word (in any language) got the specific meaning it has and not the "other meaning" that could fit as well. Sometimes a word is just accepted in some way.

The word ימים means "days" and I can only guess that through times it was used also to represent the "days of the year".
I guess that the "year" was considered a significant period of time - and so, the meaning of "days" represents also not just "some simple days" but the counting of days that fills a full year.

But we should go so far. There is another meaning for "day" in the Bible. and that is "a full day".
Just remember Genesis Chapter 1, and we see that Day+night=Day.
How can it be? I guess for the same reason as before.
The full day is considered a significant period of time, and so the word "Day" which is just the "day time" started to represent the full 24 hours day.

We can always wonder why a word got that exact meaning. |And sometimes it is what it is.
Let's look at English.
I just learned that there is an English word "Sennight" whose meaning is "week".
I learned that Sennight is an alternative form of "seven nights", and so it is very clear why it is a synonym for "week".
But What about the word "week" itself?
I saw on an etymology site that it is based on the meaning of "turning, succession" (which is also based on 'bend', and/or 'wind').
(So I guess it is about a turning point, a change, a repeated circle).
And so, we can ask why it was chosen to represent the turning of the seven days. Why not represent a Month or a Year or any other repeated period of time?
I don't know why, but I guess a nice reason can be found.

On that site, there is a note (a quote from a scholar) that says: "the word may once have denoted some earlier time division, such as the 'change of moon, half month,' ... but there is no positive evidence of this".
So whether there is evidence to that or there isn't, eventually, the word "week" was accepted to represent the "turning" of the seven days.

So why does ימים='days' was accepted as a term for "year", and not a month or another period of time... I don't know. I took my guess at the beginning of this post, but eventually, from our perspective of thousands of years later, it is not rough to say: It is what it is.
(And remember that in my first post in this thread, I brought an opinion that says that ימים does not mean a period of a year, but a period of four months - So there is no wrong to arguing about the period of time itself. It is not a matter of Hebrew language as in its grammar or syntax. Just a way of understanding).

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Why יֹמַיִם is two days.

The word יֹמַיִם, as it is spelled and voweled, has the "ayim" suffix.
This "ayim" suffix narrows the plural to dual.
so just like שנה is "a year" and שְׁנָתַיִם is "two years",
so is יום is "a day" and יוֹמַיִם/יֹמַיִם is "two days".

By the way, search also the word יומים to see the other verses that use that word, such as Ex.21:21
אַךְ אִם יוֹם אוֹ יוֹמַיִם יַעֲמֹד לֹא יֻקַּם כִּי כַסְפּוֹ הוּא
So you can clear your doubt about its meaning.

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About Numbers 9:22
אוֹ־יֹמַיִם אוֹ־חֹדֶשׁ אוֹ־יָמִים בְּהַאֲרִיךְ הֶעָנָן עַל־הַמִּשְׁכָּן לִשְׁכֹּן עָלָיו יַחֲנוּ בְנֵי־יִשְׂרָאֵל וְלֹא יִסָּעוּ וּבְהֵעָלֹתוֹ יִסָּעוּ

Read the previous verse which talks about the time of the cloud.
It talks about the night and the day.
And the next verse (22) - continues to count: two days, a month, a year.

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About Hosea 6:2
יְחַיֵּנוּ מִיֹּמָיִם בַּיּוֹם הַשְּׁלִישִׁי יְקִמֵנוּ וְנִחְיֶה לְפָנָיו

It talks about two days and then comes the third day.

***************************************************************************************************************
1 Sam 27:7
וַיְהִי מִסְפַּר הַיָּמִים אֲשֶׁר־יָשַׁב דָּוִד בִּשְׂדֵה פְלִשְׁתִּים יָמִים וְאַרְבָּעָה חֳדָשִׁים

Here indeed the word repeats itself, but it shouldn't change anything.
There are other verses that use the same word (in one verse or in two consequent verses).
(I don't have examples in my mind right now).

Sometimes we just need to understand the word from the context.

And indeed there are places that can be argued about the meaning.
Also about this word.
Sometimes, some would understand the word ימים in a verse, as "days", while his fellow would understand this word in the same verse as "year".
And the context can bear both understandings.
David Hunter
Chris Watts
Posts: 235
Joined: Thu May 13, 2021 8:00 am

Re: Days to Days and a Year

Post by Chris Watts »

Hi Ducky, yes, it clicked when I read the previous verse in Numbers....3 times! I know context must rule, I found other places in Judges where the meaning is year to year. Thank you for your time David. It is appreciated.
Chris watts
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