Hi,
kwrandolph wrote: ↑Fri Sep 23, 2022 12:01 am
Now that you include the context of the previous verse, it changes its meaning somewhat.
But what it does not change is the meanings of words. It still talks about going around in the thickets of the forest with iron, but the iron is not something surrounding the wood, but rather iron tools.
I think that also here, the English way of speech may be confusing.
The root נקף with the meaning of "roundness" is about
Sourunding, or
Circling something or someplace from the
Outside.
Like circling the house, or surrounding the city.
In English, if someone is hanging out
in the city, you can say that he is "going
around the city" or "going
around in the city".
But there is no real "Roundness" here. And also not Surrounding anything.
If someone is walking around his house, it doesn't mean that he walks in circles, but it means that he walks from the living room to the kitchen and from the kitchen to the living room.
So this English use of the word "round" (as going around) is not about "roundness" and surely not about encircling.
kwrandolph wrote: ↑Fri Sep 23, 2022 12:01 am
It still talks about going around in the thickets of the forest with iron, but the iron is not something surrounding the wood, but rather iron tools
Here, you translated the נקף as
"going around in", as if the word "round" really represents a circle.
But it is not.
It is just the English way of speaking.
The root meaning is "Circling or Surrounding - from the outside.
kwrandolph wrote: ↑Fri Sep 23, 2022 12:01 am
ducky wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:44 pm
The root נקף is also a part of the combination נֹקֶף זַיִת In Isa. 17:6 and in 24:13.
Do you read that also with the meaning of "round"?
These two verses refer to harvesting olives, and you don’t expect the harvester to stay in one place while the olives are all over the tree. So he goes around and around until he gets all the olives.
Collecting the olives is by beating the tree (Deut. 24:20), and what is left on the tree is called עוללות.
(basically, עוללות is often related to grapes, but in this case, it is related to olives).
The description of the act of getting the olives, would not be by saying "surrounding the olive".
But it is about the act itself - the beating of the tree.
Let's look at the previous verse:
הָיָה כֶּאֱסֹף קָצִיר קָמָה וּזְרֹעוֹ שִׁבֳּלִים יִקְצוֹר וְהָיָה כִּמְלַקֵּט שִׁבֳּלִים בְּעֵמֶק רְפָאִים
אסף קציר קמה - gather the standing corn
שבלים יקצור - reap the ears
מלקט שבלים - glean ears
It talks specifically about the acts.
And in the next verse, it continues to describe the act itself by saying נקף זית - "beating the olive".
(And it doesn't describe the act by saying that a man is walking around the tree).
And actually, in this case, it is not about getting the olives, but it is more about what is left on the tree.
Notice the metaphor.
It is about What is going to happen after the attack on Israel.
It is said that after the attack, there would be left only a few from Israel in the land - like the few olives that stay on the tree after the beating.
So seeing the נקף as "beat" fits the collecting act. Fits with the list of the other acts. Fits the context of the attack/beating.
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kwrandolph wrote: ↑Fri Sep 23, 2022 12:01 am
25 I know that my redeemer lives, and afterward, he will rise upon the dust
26 and after my skins wrap this up, and from my flesh, I will view God
27 who I, I will view for myself, and my eyes will see and not a stranger, and my kidneys will be complete within my body
You read it with the נקף as "surround/circle"
and with the אחר as "after"
which both of the definitions are of course valid.
But I still can't read it or understand it.
I need more context.
kwrandolph wrote: ↑Fri Sep 23, 2022 12:01 am
25 I know that my redeemer lives, and afterward, he will rise upon the dust
1. Who is the redeemer? Is it an anonymous person? Is it God? Is it Job himself?
2. Where and why you translated אחרון as "afterward"?
kwrandolph wrote: ↑Fri Sep 23, 2022 12:01 am
26 and after my skins wrap this up, and from my flesh, I will view God
1. I can't understand the syntax. How is it to be read?
Is it a one-sentence? Is it two sentences?
Are these two sentences parallels with their meaning?
2. What is the "this" in "wrap this up"?
3. Why the עורי turns to be "skins" (in plural)?