For Karl: Ktiv–Kri

[Jason Hare]

Hi, Karl.

We are working through Joshua in our live stream on YouTube, and in putting together the next bits for the reading, there are some interesting ktiv–kri instances that I wanted to ask you about. I understand that you reject the whole ktiv–kri system and believe that the consonantal text is preserved perfectly in Hebrew. Could you take a look at the following two verses (one instance of ktiv–kri) and let me know how you would understand the underlined words syntactically?

Joshua 6.6–7 (MT)

ויקרא יהושע בן נון אל הכהנים ויאמר אלהם שאו את ארון הברית ושבעה כהנים ישאו שבעה שופרות יובלים לפני ארון יהוה ויאמרו אל העם עברו וסבו את העיר והחלוץ יעבר לפני ארון יהוה

What is the subject of ויאמרו in verse 7? In the ktiv–kri, it is replaced by ויאמר and has יהושע בן נון as its subject. Do you read it as the Cohanim giving themselves instructions?

Thanks.

[kwrandolph]

Hi, Karl.

I understand that you reject the whole ktiv–kri system …

No I don’t and have never said that I do. However, when I compare the two, I notice that the vast majority of ktiv gives a better reading than kri.

and believe that the consonantal text is preserved perfectly in Hebrew.

Again, I have never said that. But it often gives readings superior to the Niqqud.

Could you take a look at the following two verses (one instance of ktiv–kri) and let me know how you would understand the underlined words syntactically?

Joshua 6.6–7 (MT)

ויקרא יהושע בן נון אל הכהנים ויאמר אלהם שאו את ארון הברית ושבעה כהנים ישאו שבעה שופרות יובלים לפני ארון יהוה ויאמרו אל העם עברו וסבו את העיר והחלוץ יעבר לפני ארון יהוה

What is the subject of ויאמרו in verse 7? In the ktiv–kri, it is replaced by ויאמר and has יהושע בן נון as its subject. Do you read it as the Cohanim giving themselves instructions?

Thanks.

I checked both Aleppo and WLC, and the copies I have of both have the same consonantal reading for verse 7: ויאמרו אל העם . What we read is a change in subject—Joshua commanded the priests, and the priests then spoke to the people. The kri reading assumes that the subject speaking remains the same.

That’s how I understand the reading.

Karl W. Randolph.

[Jason Hare]

No I don’t and have never said that I do. However, when I compare the two, I notice that the vast majority of ktiv gives a better reading than kri.

Well, I must have misunderstood what you wrote in the past. I thought you believed that the consonantal text as we have it is the inspired and preserved text of the Hebrew Bible.

Thanks for the clarification.

[ducky]

Literally the next verse (8):
וַיְהִי כֶּאֱמֹר יְהוֹשֻׁעַ אֶל הָעָם וְשִׁבְעָה הַכֹּהֲנִים נֹשְׂאִים שִׁבְעָה שׁוֹפְרוֹת הַיּוֹבְלִים לִפְנֵי י״י

Also, just before that, verses 2-5, God tells Joshua what the "plan" is.
and immediately right after that, verse 6 Joshua tells that to the priests, and then comes our verse 7 that continue to talk about bringing the "plan" to the people.

The plural form ויאמרו probably comes to tell that the "plan" was brought to the people through the officers (mentioned in chapter 3:2) (or maybe the priests), after all, one man cannot talk to the people. But also, that plural ויאמרו comes to tell that "They said"... by the instruction of Joshua himself, and so, for that, it is his "saying".
And that is how it is said on the next verse (8).

And so, this is the reading tradition which is different than the writing tradition.

Close case is in 1Sam 15:16
וַיֹּאמֶר שְׁמוּאֵל אֶל שָׁאוּל הֶרֶף וְאַגִּידָה לְּךָ אֵת אֲשֶׁר דִּבֶּר י״י אֵלַי הַלָּיְלָה [וַיֹּאמֶר] (ויאמרו) לוֹ דַּבֵּר