The location of mount Sinai

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Isaac Fried
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The location of mount Sinai

Postby Isaac Fried » Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:51 pm

As it never attracted pilgrims and worshipers, the location of mount Sinai is lost. Legends place it in various places in the desert between Egypt and Israel.

Today we have read in 1Ki. 19:7-8
ויאמר קום אכל כי רב ממך הדרך ויקם ויאכל וישתה וילך בכח האכילה ההיא ארבעים יום וארבעים לילה עד הר האלהים חרב
NIV: The angel of the Lord came back a second time and touched him and said, “Get up and eat, for the journey is too much for you.” So he got up and ate and drank. Strengthened by that food, he traveled forty days and forty nights until he reached Horeb the mountain of God.

In a strenuous "walk" of forty days and forty nights, Elijah could have covered the distance of at least 2000 km, bringing him from the Negeb to what I suspect is mount Sinai: the volcano Erta Ale in Ethiopia.
The crossing of the Red Sea occurred, methinks, further south at the narrow (28 km) Bab-el-Mandeb strait, separating Africa and Asia.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

Isaac Fried
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Re: The location of mount Sinai

Postby Isaac Fried » Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:05 am

Compare also the lively description of the rumbling, smoke spewing, magma gurgling mountain of Ex. 19:16-19
ויהי ביום השלישי בהית הבקר ויהי קלת וברקים וענן כבד על-ההר וקל שפר חזק מאד ויחרד כל העם אשר במחנה ויוצא משה את העם לקראת האלהים מן המחנה ויתיצבו בתחתית ההר והר סיני עשן כלו מפני אשר ירד עליו יהוה באש ויעל עשנו כעשן הכבשן ויחרד כל ההר מאד ויהי קול השפר הולך וחזק מאד
KJV: "And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud; so that all the people that was in the camp trembled. And Moses brought forth the people out of the camp to meet with God; and they stood at the nether part of the mount. And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the Lord descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly. And when the voice of the trumpet sounded long, and waxed louder and louder"

with Elijah's cool headed discerning between the tumult of nature and the ultimate "thin voice within the dead silence" in 1Ki. 19:11-12

ויאמר צא ועמדת בהר לפני יהוה והנה יהוה עבר ורוח גדולה וחזק מפרק הרים ומשבר סלעים לפני יהוה לא ברוח יהוה ואחר הרוח רעש לא ברעש יהוה ואחר הרעש אש לא באש יהוה ואחר האש קול דממה דקה
KJV: " And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the Lord. And, behold, the Lord passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the Lord; but the Lord was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the Lord was not in the earthquake: And after the earthquake a fire; but the Lord was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice."

Isaac Fried, Boston University

Isaac Fried
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Re: The location of mount Sinai

Postby Isaac Fried » Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:41 pm

As for the name סיני SINAIY, it is possibly generic and related to שן $EN, 'tooth'. It is also also apparently related to mount שיאון SIYON of Deut. 4:48, mount ציון CIYON, and צן CIN of Nu. 13:21, all related, in turn, to שיא SIY, summit', as in Job 20:6.
The R in שניר SNIYR and שיריון SIRION, as in Deut. 3:9, is possibly for הר HAR, or צור, שור CUR, $UR, 'mountain'.

Etna is possibly also a relative.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

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SteveMiller
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Re: The location of mount Sinai

Postby SteveMiller » Sun Aug 17, 2014 8:06 pm

Mt Sinai is in Midian (Saudi Arabia) east of the Gulf of Aquaba.
http://www.arkdiscovery.com/mt__sinai_found.htm
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Steve Miller
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http://www.voiceInWilderness.info
Honesty is the best policy. - George Washington (1732-99)

Saboi

Re: The location of mount Sinai

Postby Saboi » Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:49 am

Deuteronomy 4:48 reveals the mountain as Hermon, הר-שיאן means 'snowy mountains' and these are the mountains that border North Israel.

The descriptions of סיני in the scripture are in contradiction of the "Sinai" in Saudi Arabia.

Judges 5:5
- הרים נזלו מפני יהוה : the mountains melted from presence of the Lord.
- זה סיני מפני יהוה אלהי ישראל : this Sinai from presence of Lord God Israel"

Psalm 68:8
- ארץ רעשה אף־שמים נטפו מפני אלהים : earth shook, even the sky dropped from presence of Lord
- זה סיני מפני אלהים אלהי ישראל : this Sinai from presence of Lord God Israel.

The verb נזלו in Judges 5:5 explained in Song of Songs 4:15 - נזלים מן־לבנו "Streams of Lebanon", the entire scriptures allude to the same mountain.

Isaiah 55:10
For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and return not thither, but water the earth

Amos 9:13
the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all hills shall melt.

Nahum 1:5
mountains quake at him, and hills melt and earth is burned at his presence.

In Israel, the river Jordan, if you follow to its source, you reach Mount Hermon that is covered in snow, also a popular ski resort and all the rivers around the Levant are sourced from the melting snow of this mountain.

The apparent locations in the Book of Exodus are in the guise of the Levant.

Exodus 9:23 - Lord rained hail upon the land מצרים (μέσ ῥόοιν) (Lebanon)
Exodus 9:25 - The hail smote throughout all the land of מצרים (μέσ ῥόοιν) (Lebanon)

Psalm 78:47
He destroyed their vines with hail, and their sycomore trees with frost.

Isaiah 9:10
the sycomores are cut down, but we will change them into cedars
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/1 ... s-lebanon/

The Septuagint reveals this in Numbers 34:5 that translates נחלה מצרים into χειμάρρουν Αἰγύπτου meaning "Winter-flowing Egypt" (Winter-torrents, swollen by rain and melted snow).


הר סיני הוא חרמון
Last edited by Saboi on Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Isaac Fried
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Re: The location of mount Sinai

Postby Isaac Fried » Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:46 am

Steve Miller suggests that mount Sinai is possibly Jebel el Lawz in Saudi Arabia. Says I: If it was an active rumbling volcano spewing smoke and fire at the time of מתן תורה, then possibly.
Lee Mcgee says that הר סיני הוא חרמון. Says I: There is no hint in holy text as to snow shoes or skis.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

Saboi

Re: The location of mount Sinai

Postby Saboi » Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:55 pm

They are no active volcanoes in the middle east and the Hebrew scriptures are instead describing glacial activities on the mountain.

Psalm 148:8
Fire (אש), hail(ברד) snow (שלג) and vapour(קיטור); stormy(סערה) wind fulfilling his word

Throughout the scripture, "Fire" is always accompanying Hail and Snow and appears contradictory, until i discovered that the English word "Ice" cognates אש.

In Genesis 19:24 all translations incorrectly read "brimstone and fire", however גפרית is a variant of כפר "hoarfrost" (Job 38:29) and the homologue is κρύσταλλος "Ice" from κρύος "icy-frost" that is קרת.

Job 6:16 - snow(שלג) and ice(קרח)
Job 6:17 - when it is hot(חמ), they are consumed(דעך)

Exodus 3:2
And the messenger of the Lord appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of the Snow: and he looked and behold, the snow burned with fire and the snow was not consumed. Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight and why the snow not melted.

Psalm 78:47
He destroyed their vines with hail, and their sycomore trees with frost.

Deuteronomy 32:32
For their vine is of the vine of Sodom, and of the fields of Gomorrah: their grapes are grapes of gall, their clusters are bitter.

Wine making is a tradition that goes back 6000 years in Lebanon and the valley's climate is very suitable to vineyards, however the country as snowy winters, a bad winter would be disastrous to the vineyard and would probably appear as punishment from God.

Isaac Fried
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Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:32 pm

Re: The location of mount Sinai

Postby Isaac Fried » Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:52 pm

Lee Mcgee says
There are no active volcanoes in the middle east and the Hebrew scriptures are instead describing glacial activities on the mountain.

True, yet there are still active volcanoes in East Africa, notably Erta Ale the "smoking mountain" in northeastern Ethiopia by the Red Sea. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erta_Ale
Ancient Egypt extended south some 1000 km and it is not clear in what part of it, "Goshen", the sons of Israel dwelt. I believe that the Exodus was at first south towards Ethiopia, and then after crossing at the Bab al-Mandab strait they veered back to travel north on the Asian side of the Red Sea.
As to Ps. 148:8
אֵשׁ וּבָרָד שֶׁלֶג וְקִיטוֹר רוּחַ סְעָרָה עֹשָׂה דְבָרוֹ
it could be easily a description of winter weather in Jerusalem, with אֵשׁ meaning lightning flashes.
The סְנֶה of Ex. 1-5, is possibly the mountain.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

Saboi

Re: The location of mount Sinai

Postby Saboi » Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:43 pm

Medusa is carved in stone at the Chorazin synagogue, the oldest in Israel, thus the story of Perseus was known and part of the Jewish culture, in the myth of Perseus, he went to the Kingdom of Aethiopia [Αἰθιοπία] which is יפוה in the Levant.

Pausanias - Book 4, chapter 35
Red water, in color like blood, is found in the land of the Hebrews near the city of Joppa. The water is close to the sea, and the account which the natives give of the spring is that Perseus, after destroying the sea-monster, to which the daughter of Cepheus was exposed, washed off the blood in the spring.
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... ight=joppa

The account in Pausanias aligned with Joshua 19:46, that mentions יפו (Gk. Ιόππης) describes as ירקון(Raqqown), as in the scene in which Perseus slew the monster, or the δράκων (drákōn) and the blood of the slain monster turned the river into blood in Exodus 7:17, the word יאר is ἔαρ "Spring, blood" ( ἴαρα) and also explains the story of Jonah.

This is the river Abraham in Lebanon, in another myth, Adonis's blood flowed in the river and based on a natural phenomena.
"Soil washed off the mountains by heavy winter rains causes the water to take on its red color in February"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_River

יאר
Image

The biblical Joppa is in Lebanon, thus not to be confused with Jaffa in Israel.

Ezra 3:7
To bring cedar trees from Lebanon to the sea of Joppa

Saboi

Re: The location of mount Sinai

Postby Saboi » Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:28 pm

סיני appears in Genesis 10 under כנען alongside ערקי "Arca" (in Phoenicia) thus סיני is a variant of קיני.

כנען > ΦΟΙΝΙΚΩΝ "palm-bearing region"
קיני, סיני > ΦΟΙΝΙΞ
כנור 'a musical instrument made from palm' (תמר)

2 Samuel 13:18
Tamar (תמר) had a garment of divers colour

Ezekiel 17:3
A great eagle with great wings, long winged, full of feathers,which had divers colours and came unto Lebanon

Exodus 3:2
And the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a flame of fire


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