Dear Steve,
You wrote:
Rolf,
thank you for answering.
I know that Israel is called a goy, nation many times.
But I don't know of any place where Israel is called goyim except when it was split into 2 nations: the northern kingdom of Israel and the southern kingdom of Judah. Then there were 2 nations, goim. That is what Ezekiel 2:3 is referring to. The book of Ezekiel is about the state of both nations. For example in chapter 4 Ezekiel lays on his right side for Judah and on his left side for Israel.
I think the fact that goyim plural cannot refer to Judah decides the case. unless someone can come up with a better example of Judah being called goyim
I understand your reasoning, which is logical. And your conclusion that כָּל־הַגּוֹיִ֥ם הָאֵ֖לֶּה cannot refer to the inhabitants of Judah is a legitimate interpretation. I will now make an outline of my interpretation, so the listmembers can compare your interpretation with mine.
It is correct that Ezekiel should literally
act as prophet both for Israel and Judah according to Ezekiel, chapter 4. But it seems to me that his words in chapter chapter 2 are directed to another audience. Ezekiel was taken captive by Nebuchadnezzar in 617 BCE (I use the Biblical chronology, not the traditional one), and he was taken to Babylon. Ezekiel heard the words from God when he was at the river Kebar (1:3), and to whom did he speak? To the exiles who were at the river Kebar. The ten-tribe kingdom had been destroyed more than one hundred years before Ezekiel got his visions, so he could not speak to the inhabitants of Israel. Ezekiel uses the word “Israel” more than 200 times in his book, and in most cases this word refers to the land of Judah and its inhabitants or to the exiles from the land of Judah. For example, the elders of Israel who sat before Ezekiel (14:1) could not refer to the elders of the ten-tribe kingdom that did not exist. Ezra 6:21 also speaks about “the Israelites who had returned from the exile,” and he uses “Israel” for the returned exiles elsewhere as well. The kingdom of Judah included three tribes, Judah, Benjamin, and the Levites. But persons from all the other tribes lived there as well. When Ezekiel, in 2:3, uses the word “Israel,” it seems to me that he refers to representatives from all the tribes who lived as exiles in Babylon and to the people that still was in Judah; they were גּוֹיִ֥ם הַמּוֹרְדִ֖ים. I think Esra uses the word in the same sense. If this understanding is correct, there is a background for the use of כָּל־הַגּוֹיִ֥ם הָאֵ֖לֶּה in Jeremiah 25:9 as referring to the people who lived in Judah.
A Hebrew word used by an author often has a big meaning potential and many possible references, and often the context will help the reader to see which side of the word the author wants to make visible and what its reference is. The
meaning of כָּל־הַגּוֹיִ֥ם הָאֵ֖לֶּה is clear, but the reference is unclear. Regarding סָבִ֑יב, which side of its meaning potential that the author wants to make visible, is not clear. This means that the reference of כָּל־הַגּוֹיִ֥ם הָאֵ֖לֶּה סָבִ֑יב is ambiguous.
I will now give an outline of why I believe כָּל־הַגּוֹיִ֥ם הָאֵ֖לֶּה סָבִ֑יב refer to the inhabitants of Judah, so the listmembers can consider my arguments.
1. TWO PARLLEL ACCOUNTS
In Jeremiah 1:15-16 we find an account that is very similar to the account in 25:9: I list the parallels below.
Jer 25:9 Look! I will send for, and I will take all the families of the north, is the utterance of YHWH, also to Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babel, my servant.
Jer 1:15 For look! I will call all the families of the kingdoms of the north, is the utterance of YHWH.
Jer 25:9 And I will cause them to come
Jer 1:15 And they will come
Jer 25:9
against this land,
and against its inhabitants,
and against all these nations round about.
Jer 1:15 and each one will
set up his throne in the entrance of the gates of Jerusalem,
and against all her walls round about,
and against all the towns of Judah.
Jer 25:9 And I will destroy them, and devote them to desolation, to a whisling, and and to devastation to time indefinite.
Jer 1:16 And I will declare my judgment against them.
The parallels are listed, and of particular interest is that there are three different objects that the nations will come against in both accounts, and all objects are inside the country in 1:15, 16. The parallel between “against all these nations round about (25:9) is “all the towns of Judah (1:15). This does not prove that “all these nations round about” refers to the inhabitants of Judah, but it is an interesting background of the points that follow. (I translate סָבִ֔יב in כָּל־חוֹמֹתֶ֙יהָ֙ סָבִ֔יבi in as "round about." The suffix of "walls" identifies the walls as those of Jerusalem. But because Jerusalem had other walls than those around the city, I use the ambiguous "round about."
2. TWO INDEPENDENT MESSAGES FROM GOD
The book of Jeremiah contains many independent messages that Jeremiah says he received from God. In the first message (1:4-12) God says to Jeremiah that he should be a prophet for the nations (1:5, 10). After this message has ended, he received a new message (1:13-19), and this message relates to Jerusalem and Judah. It is important to realize that these two messages are independent of one another.
In Jeremiah 25:1-14 there is one independent message that speaks about all the people of Judah. The verses 25:15-38 contain another message directed to “all the nations to whom I send you.” Both messages are independent of each other, and they are given at different times. This means that that the different parts of 25:1-14 are included in one unit and each expression here must be seen in the light of this independent unit (message), and not in the light of the following message.
3. THE DIFFERENT EXPRESSIONS
a) אֵ֖לֶּה. The demonstrative pronoun must have an antecedent, and it is logical to seek this antecedent in the message where it occurs, and not in another message that Jeremiah had not yet received.
b) כָּל־הַגּוֹיִ֥ם הָאֵ֖לֶּה. “The people of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem" (25:2) are plural and would be a natural antecedent to “all these nations.” It is the land of Judah that will be destryed (25:11), and people outside Judah are not mentioned in the independent message (25:1-14)
c) סָבִ֑יב. As I have shown, this word can be specific (surrounding) and non-specific (round about). It can refer to something around a country, as well as inside a country. In 25:9 the word is ambiguous, and the exact place where “All these nations are” cannot be known. Therefore, the context must decide.
4. THE 70 YEARS
The message in 25:1-14 speaks about the condition of Judah as a desolate waste. This deserted condition should last for 70 years, when “these nations” should serve the king of Babylon (25:11). In the other instances where the 70 years are mentioned, they exclusively refer to the Jews, and their return to their land (Jeremiah 29:10, Daniel 9:2, 2 Chronicles 36:21). A prophecy saying that “all nations surrounding Judah” should serve Babylon for 70 years would hardly give any meaning as far as the time is concerned.
My conclusion is that linguistically speaking the expression כָּל־הַגּוֹיִ֥ם הָאֵ֖לֶּה סָבִ֑יב is ambiguous. But contextually speaking, there are very good reasons to apply the expression to the three tribes and representatives of the other tribes who lived in Judah and who were taken to Babylon.
Best regards,
Rolf J. Furuli
Stavern
Norway