Psalm 22:17 4QPs Pierced
Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:41 pm
I refer to Psalms 22:17 (v16 in many English translations).
Where, if anywhere is Psalms 22:17 in Qumran Dead Sea Scroll 4Q88/4QPs?
By Psalm 22:17, I mean "Dogs surround me, a pack of villains encircles me; they pierce my hands and my feet."
The verse where there's the question of lion vs pierced/injure/bore kaari vs karu/kaaru.
Is Psalms 22:17 missing from Qumran Dead Sea Scroll 4Q88/4QPs?
According to this article https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/trfo ... ierced.pdf
"Unfortunately, the Psalms Scroll found at Qumran did not include 22:16[17] because the manuscript was damaged at the very place where it would have appeared."
And he mentions that (while it's not in fragments from qumran, it's in the fragments from nahal chever and i've seen a picture of exactly where in nahal chever fragments, so i'm not asking about that, i'm asking purely regarding the fragments of qumran scrolls)
If I look at the site dssenglish
http://dssenglishbible.com/psalms%2022.htm http://dssenglishbible.com/scroll4Q88.htm
it shows Psalm 22:17(v16 there), the verse about the lion vs pierced, in 4Q88 not missing.
It also shows the verse from the nahal chever fragments.
There's no question that the verse is in the nahal chever fragments.
But I can't tell if the verse is in the Qumran fragments too.
The dssenglish site suggests that it is in the qumran fragments in 4Q88 (From what I understand, 4Q means fourth qumran cave)
But that pdf I linked to says it is not in qumran scrolls.
This link https://www.deadseascrolls.org.il/explo ... ipt/4Q88-1 shows 4Q88 fragments, but I can't tell where if anywhere Psalms 22:17 would be.
That suggests it's in 4QPs(which I think is aka 4Q88), fragments 1 and 2
I see this link that shows manuscript fragments
https://www.deadseascrolls.org.il/explo ... ipt/4Q88-1
But as fragments don't have verse numbers I can't find it, whether it's there or not, or how much of v16 is there.
That might even suggest it's specifically fragment two, as it says f2, but I can't see what is what.
I understand that dots above the letters mean that the letters(eg in that ulrich link), means they are unclear in the manuscript, but I can't determine where the unclear letters i'm looking for are. For the scroll of isaiah the .org.il site have some digital effects where you hover over a scroll and it shows chapter and verse, but they haven't done it for psalms.
I don't know if it is on fragment two, but this is fragment two, but looking at the link I mentioned, that shows all fragments
https://www.deadseascrolls.org.il/explo ... ipt/4Q88-1
They let you zoom in on it on that website, it shows two images for fragment 2.
https://www.deadseascrolls.org.il/explo ... e/B-363360
and
https://www.deadseascrolls.org.il/explo ... e/B-363361
But as for where on that fragment the verse is or if it's on a different qumran fragment, I don't know?
Thanks
Ralph Zak
Where, if anywhere is Psalms 22:17 in Qumran Dead Sea Scroll 4Q88/4QPs?
By Psalm 22:17, I mean "Dogs surround me, a pack of villains encircles me; they pierce my hands and my feet."
The verse where there's the question of lion vs pierced/injure/bore kaari vs karu/kaaru.
Is Psalms 22:17 missing from Qumran Dead Sea Scroll 4Q88/4QPs?
According to this article https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/trfo ... ierced.pdf
"Unfortunately, the Psalms Scroll found at Qumran did not include 22:16[17] because the manuscript was damaged at the very place where it would have appeared."
And he mentions that (while it's not in fragments from qumran, it's in the fragments from nahal chever and i've seen a picture of exactly where in nahal chever fragments, so i'm not asking about that, i'm asking purely regarding the fragments of qumran scrolls)
If I look at the site dssenglish
http://dssenglishbible.com/psalms%2022.htm http://dssenglishbible.com/scroll4Q88.htm
it shows Psalm 22:17(v16 there), the verse about the lion vs pierced, in 4Q88 not missing.
It also shows the verse from the nahal chever fragments.
There's no question that the verse is in the nahal chever fragments.
But I can't tell if the verse is in the Qumran fragments too.
The dssenglish site suggests that it is in the qumran fragments in 4Q88 (From what I understand, 4Q means fourth qumran cave)
But that pdf I linked to says it is not in qumran scrolls.
This link https://www.deadseascrolls.org.il/explo ... ipt/4Q88-1 shows 4Q88 fragments, but I can't tell where if anywhere Psalms 22:17 would be.
That suggests it's in 4QPs(which I think is aka 4Q88), fragments 1 and 2
I see this link that shows manuscript fragments
https://www.deadseascrolls.org.il/explo ... ipt/4Q88-1
But as fragments don't have verse numbers I can't find it, whether it's there or not, or how much of v16 is there.
That might even suggest it's specifically fragment two, as it says f2, but I can't see what is what.
I understand that dots above the letters mean that the letters(eg in that ulrich link), means they are unclear in the manuscript, but I can't determine where the unclear letters i'm looking for are. For the scroll of isaiah the .org.il site have some digital effects where you hover over a scroll and it shows chapter and verse, but they haven't done it for psalms.
I don't know if it is on fragment two, but this is fragment two, but looking at the link I mentioned, that shows all fragments
https://www.deadseascrolls.org.il/explo ... ipt/4Q88-1
They let you zoom in on it on that website, it shows two images for fragment 2.
https://www.deadseascrolls.org.il/explo ... e/B-363360
and
https://www.deadseascrolls.org.il/explo ... e/B-363361
But as for where on that fragment the verse is or if it's on a different qumran fragment, I don't know?
Thanks
Ralph Zak