[heb]עֲרָבִי[/heb] Isaiah 13:20

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Isaac Fried
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[heb]עֲרָבִי[/heb] Isaiah 13:20

Postby Isaac Fried » Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:08 pm

וְלֹא יַהֵל שָׁם עֲרָבִי וְרֹעִים לֹא יַרְבִּצוּ שָׁם
NIV: "there no nomads will pitch their tents, there no shepherds will rest their flocks"
KJV: "neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there"
in which עֲרָבִי = ערב-היא, with the PP היא standing for the person (or thing, even abstract) possessing the property ערב. Compare English Arabian = Arab-ian, and German Araber = Arab-er.
This addition of such a final היא is common now in the set-up of adjectives, for example:
פְּרָטִי, 'private, personal'
כְּלָלִי, 'general'
כַּסְפִּי, 'financial'
מִסְחָרִי, 'commercial'
כַּלְכָּלִי, 'economic'
מְדִינִי, 'political'
and many many more.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

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Jason Hare
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Re: [heb]עֲרָבִי[/heb] Isaiah 13:20

Postby Jason Hare » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:26 am

It's like saying that the -ite suffix in English means he. It's a suffix. Hebrew has suffixes. It doesn't mean היא every time there is a chirik-yod in a word.
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Isaac Fried
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Re: עֲרָבִי Isaiah 13:20

Postby Isaac Fried » Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:13 pm

Jason says
It's a suffix

Yes, it is a suffix, everything suffixed is a suffix (Hebrew ציצית), and it is good to call it so, especially if one does not know what it otherwise is. Language is not made up of abstract "suffixes", but of real meaningful words that coalesced and became compacted in fluent speech.
It's like saying that the -ite suffix in English means he

The English suffixes are: it, is am, he, an, one, ego (German ich), and more. Look at Google for more on the English suffixes. It is dangerous to equate English to Hebrew.
It doesn't mean היא every time there is a chirik-yod in a word.

Yes! Indeed!, the chirik-yod ending may be a vestige of היא, or it may be a vestige of אני (in the sense of שלי, 'my, mine'). For example דתי DATIY may mean 'my religion', or it may mean 'a religious man or thing'.

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Jason Hare
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Re: [heb]עֲרָבִי[/heb] Isaiah 13:20

Postby Jason Hare » Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:53 am

This is complete speculation. None of this is backed up by anything in linguistic study. While I can certainly appreciate the creativity of your position, it is not based on anything but assumption.
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talmid56
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Re: עֲרָבִי Isaiah 13:20

Postby talmid56 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:13 pm

I would have to agree with Jason. Can you cite even one linguist who studies Biblical Hebrew who accepts this approach, Isaac?
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דואיין דוליני

Blog: https://letancientvoicesspeak.wordpress.com/

כִּ֤י שֶׁ֨מֶשׁ׀ וּמָגֵן֮ יְהוָ֪ה אֱלֹ֫הִ֥ים חֵ֣ן וְ֭כָבוֹד יִתֵּ֣ן יְהוָ֑ה לֹ֥א יִמְנַע־ט֝֗וֹב לַֽהֹלְכִ֥ים בְּתָמִֽים׃
--(E 84:11) 84:12 תהלים

Isaac Fried
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Re: [heb]עֲרָבִי[/heb] Isaiah 13:20

Postby Isaac Fried » Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:37 pm

talmid says
I would have to agree with Jason. Can you cite even one linguist who studies Biblical Hebrew who accepts this approach, Isaac?

No "linguist" who "studies" Biblical Hebrew, ever said anything to me.
People who are professionally involved with Biblical Hebrew are often conservative, faith motivated, follower of the narrow trodden path, adherents to hardened dogmas and beliefs, and therefore hard to logically argue with about anything novel. I never argue with faith. We don't need them to tell us what is right and what is wrong about Hebrew.
If you have anything substantial and constructive to say on my claims, I will listen to it attentively. Crying "speculation" is of no help, nor of any practical value whatsoever.
What I say is good and true on its own merit, and elegantly and completely solves the enigma of the Hebrew grammar.

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Jason Hare
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Re: עֲרָבִי Isaiah 13:20

Postby Jason Hare » Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:31 am

I will say right-out that I am not motivated by faith or by conservatism.

"What I say is good and true on its own merit, and elegantly and completely solves the enigma of the Hebrew grammar."

That is a subjective judgment you've come to on your own. I do not see any merit in this system at all. I am interested in the language as a natural phenomenon, as it is related to other languages. I don't see an enigma present in the Hebrew grammar any more than enigma exists in every other language. Hebrew is not any different from other Semitic languages of the time. In fact, it is nearly identical to several contemporary ANE languages.

Have you looked at the Mesha Stele? Do you think that's Hebrew or Moabite? Have you compared it to, say, the Hezekiah Tunnel Inscription? Hebrew is a Canaanite language in every aspect.
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Isaac Fried
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Re: [heb]עֲרָבִי[/heb] Isaiah 13:20

Postby Isaac Fried » Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:16 pm

Jason says
That is a subjective judgment you've come to on your own

Of course, that's the beauty of it: it is my own.
I do not see any merit in this system at all

I am sorry to hear it. You are missing, I am afraid, something significant about the Hebrew language.
I am interested in the language as a natural phenomenon, as it is related to other languages

Me too.
Hebrew is not any different from other Semitic languages of the time

Yes, very possibly.
Have you looked at the Mesha Stele? Do you think that's Hebrew or Moabite? Have you compared it to, say, the Hezekiah Tunnel Inscription? Hebrew is a Canaanite language in every aspect.

Yes, what is true for Hebrew is true for its sister languages.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

Isaac Fried
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Re: [heb]עֲרָבִי[/heb] Isaiah 13:20

Postby Isaac Fried » Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:35 pm

Hebrew finds it useful to compound the end personal pronouns, for example,
עֲרָבִית = ערב-היא-את, 'the arabic language'
עֲרָבִיָּה = ערבי-היא-היא 'an arab woman'

Isaac Fried, Boston University

Isaac Fried
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Re: [heb]עֲרָבִי[/heb] Isaiah 13:20

Postby Isaac Fried » Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:37 pm

No, actually
עֲרָבִיָּה = ערב-היא-היא 'an Arab woman'

Isaac Fried, Boston University


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