The sounds of letter ש=Shin (בשם=balsam)

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ducky
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Re: The sounds of letter ש=Shin (בשם=balsam)

Postby ducky » Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:55 am

Hello Isaac

Since I am also working with the roots, I can tell you that in my opinion the גזל and the גדל derived from a different source.

the גזל based on גז/גד/קט/כס/קצ and more... when they all have the meaning of "cutting".

while the גדל is based on גד and more... which has the meaning of "combining" such as אגד and more.
The גדול as "big" is based on "strength" like you take a few strings and combined them together to make it stronger. and with that, later, the meaning of "big" was developed.

(I see it as the word קשה=tough which we also see the verb מקושש as picking woods.
I think that here, also, the combining of things makes the thing tougher (and for example, root קשר is about linking, and it is also based on קש))

I'm still working on that, so I can't be decisive about anything yet even about the things that look obvious to me.

And as I said, these two ways of roots examinations don't contradict each other, but they are based on another part of "history".
David Hunter

Isaac Fried
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Re: The sounds of letter ש=Shin (בשם=balsam)

Postby Isaac Fried » Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:43 am

ducky writes
Since I am also working with the roots, I can tell you that in my opinion the גזל and the גדל derived from a different source.

I am sorry, but is not clear to me what is "a different source".
the גזל based on גז/גד/קט/כס/קצ and more... when they all have the meaning of "cutting".

We read in Isaiah 11:1
וְיָצָא חֹטֶר מִגֵּזַע יִשָׁי וְנֵצֶר מִשָּׁרָשָׁיו יִפְרֶה
Has this גֵּזַע anything to do with "cutting"?
while the גדל is based on גד and more... which has the meaning of "combining" such as אגד and more.
Is גדע as אגד? Has the קוֹץ, 'thorn', of Gen. 3:18
וְקוֹץ וְדַרְדַּר תַּצְמִיחַ לָךְ
anything to do with "cutting"?

Isaac Fried, Boston University

ducky
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Re: The sounds of letter ש=Shin (בשם=balsam)

Postby ducky » Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:59 pm

Hello Isaac

Because the name גזע as the body of the tree didn't get this name to define the botanical essence of the tree, and that is why it comes only as a noun and not as a verb that says "grow" or something like that.

The literal meaning of גזע is actually a "piece" - Something that was cut.
And it was defined by the practical life of the ancient people that used to cut trees often.
And so, they define the cutting block of the tree as the "piece" of the tree, the "cut" itself.

This is the literal meaning of the name, and so it was used also to describe the body of the tree while it is not cut (yet). But when you examine a root, you don't need to think about the specific usage in the Bible, because that usage can be derived from a meaning that looks far, at first look.

What I wrote is a note and I don't want to expand on it.
My method is based on the two-letter-root source before it has evolved into a three-letters-root.
And I try to figure out the basic Semitic range of meanings in all of the Semitic language, and by that, try to understand its source meaning.

As you already can guess, it is more about "consonant-groups" and not about specific consonants.
Therefore, some groups include a combination of similar two-letter-roots.

גדע and אגד are from different sources.
Since it is based on the consonant-groups, sometimes (but not often) the same combinations are seen in different groups.
(and notice I say Group).

As for קוץ, it might be linked to the "cutting" also. Since the קוץ is actually the "edge" (קצה), and each "edge" or "end" is actually a cut. (Check the link between ספרe=cut and סוף=end for example).
Because each cut represents an end of the previous "length" and creates a new "end".

So as I said, I don't want to expand on my view, and this is just a few notes to let you know the basic of my method.
David Hunter

Isaac Fried
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Re: The sounds of letter ש=Shin (בשם=balsam)

Postby Isaac Fried » Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:30 pm

lucky writes
So as I said, I don't want to expand on my view, and this is just a few notes to let you know the basic of my method.

Good, we will let it rest for now until you bring your thoughts to fruition.
Meanwhile, I will just repeat that I am not comfortable with this "cut" method. I am also still perplexed by the "different sources" as in "גדע and אגד are from different sources." This needs to be still sorted out.
But, take your time, produce a good coherent method, and, in time, let us hear about it.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

ducky
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Re: The sounds of letter ש=Shin (בשם=balsam)

Postby ducky » Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:57 pm

Hello Isaac,

my theory has strong-basis, and what I wrote in my comment, I just wrote very basic stuff without writing their supports.
and so, I can understand if you see it weird.
But there are too many supports for this thing that leave no room for doubt.

And I have to say that maybe in the future I'll ask for your advice for some roots that make me trouble
David Hunter

Isaac Fried
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Re: The sounds of letter ש=Shin (בשם=balsam)

Postby Isaac Fried » Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:22 pm

Similar to the relation existing between חוֹמה, 'wall', and חמאה, 'butter', is the connection between the גְּבִינָה, 'cheese' of Job 10:10
הֲלֹא כֶחָלָב תַּתִּיכֵנִי וְכַגְּבִנָּה תַּקְפִּיאֵנִי
KJV: "Hast thou not poured me out as milk, and curdled me like cheese?"
and the גִּבֵּן, 'humped', of Lev. 21:20
אוֹ גִבֵּן אוֹ דַק
NIV: "or who is a hunchback or a dwarf"
of the root גב = גאה-עבה.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

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Jason Hare
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Re: The sounds of letter ש=Shin (בשם=balsam)

Postby Jason Hare » Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:41 am

Isaac Fried wrote:גב = גאה-עבה

או מיי גאד...
Jason Hare
Tel Aviv, Israel

Isaac Fried
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Re: The sounds of letter ש=Shin (בשם=balsam)

Postby Isaac Fried » Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:37 am

Further related to גְּבִינָה, 'cheese', and גִּבֵּן, 'humped', is the גֶפֶן (actually a kind of a גֶבֶן), 'vine', of Gen. 40:10
וּבַגֶּפֶן שְׁלֹשָׁה שָׂרִיגִם וְהִוא כְפֹרַחַת עָלְתָה נִצָּהּ הִבְשִׁילוּ אַשְׁכְּלֹתֶיהָ עֲנָבִים
KJV: " And in the vine were three branches: and it was as though it budded, and her blossoms shot forth; and the clusters thereof brought forth ripe grapes"
גפן is from the root גף = גאה-פאה.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

ducky
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Re: The sounds of letter ש=Shin (בשם=balsam)

Postby ducky » Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:27 pm

Hello Isaac,

Can you do me a favor?
Would you stop "flooding" this thread with posts that don't concern with its main subject?
I'm Not saying that in a bad way, but I think it would be better for this thread to be like that.
David Hunter


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