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2 Samuel 22 vs Psalms 18

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:34 pm
by Saboi
The same poem is presented in both 2 Samuel 22 and Psalm 18, it also presents a 'synoptic problem'

Psalms 18:10
וירכב על־כרוב ויעף וידא על־כנפי־רוח
καὶ ἐπέβη ἐπὶ χερουβιν καὶ ἐπετάσθη ἐπετάσθη ἐπὶ πτερύγων ἀνέμων

2 Samuel 22:11
וירכב על־כרוב ויעף וירא על־כנפי־רוח
καὶ ἐπεκάθισεν ἐπὶ χερουβιν καὶ ἐπετάσθη καὶ ὤφθη ἐπὶ πτερύγων ἀνέμου

There is a scribal error in the Samuel version but it is very difficult too spot due too how similarity between ר & ד, The reason why the Psalm version is correct is because 'דא' means ' fly, dart, ply rapidly' and can be defined with θοάζω and 'עף' with φεύγω,

ἐπέβη 'go upon',
ἐπεκάθισεν 'set upon'

These initial words are different that are readings of רכב 'he rode', however the GK does not mention any 'riding', however a search through the Septuagint of ἐπέβη , I find Ezekiel 10:18
and a search of ἐπεκάθισεν i find 2 Kings 10:16

Ezekiel 10:18
καὶ ἐπέβη ἐπὶ τὰ χερουβιν (And he stood upon the Cherub)
ויעמד על־הכרובים

2 Kings 10:16
καὶ ἐπεκάθισεν αὐτὸν ἐν τῷ ἅρματι αὐτοῦ (They made him sit in his chariot)
וירכבו אתו ברכבו (They made him ride in his chariot)

רכב roots 'Ride' & 'Chariot', the Greek cognate is τρόχου(> ρόχοϝ > ρχβ > רכב)
which means 'Wheel, Water-wheel, sun-disk, rotating wheels used in sieges

2 Kings 10:16
καὶ (ו) εθρεκατον(ירכב) αὐτὸν(אתו ) ἐν(ב) τροχῷ(רכב) αὐτοῦ(ו)

This is a cognitive reading of Psalm 18:10, every Hebrew word is paired
with it's Greek cognate.

Psalms 18:10
καὶ ו
εθρεκατον ירכב
ἐπὶ על
κῆρυξ כרוב
καὶ ו
ἔφυγεν יעף
καὶ ו
εθυεσεν ידא
ἐπὶ על
κνέφους כנפי
ῥοών רוח

-Rough dialectic translation-
And he moved upon the herald? and took flight and flew rapidly over the darkness
of the streams

This is similar too Gen 1:2, the word 'moved' in this particular verse is 'רחפ'
which is another cognate of רכב, τρέχω and τρόχος with various meanings, like 'Chariot, Wheels, Running' also describes water flow or water wheels, which seems to be theme.

Re: 2 Samuel 22 vs Psalms 18

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:33 pm
by Saboi
Psalm 18:12
ברד וגחלי אש
χάλαζα καὶ ἄνθρακες πυρός

2 Samuel 22:13
בערו גחלי אש
ἐξεκαύθησαν ἄνθρακες πυρός

This verse is very problematic in all the versions here, there is a conjunction is Psalm and the definition of גחל does not fit the context in its current definition and בער & ברד look like misreadings of each other.

I suspect that 'גחלי אש' is actually one word or גחליאש that is χαλάζας "Hail" and
thus eliminating 'ἄνθρακες πυρός' , also the word ἄνθρακες derives from the
Hebrew phrase, 'עין קרת' (Ezekiel 10:9, Numbers 11:7) and קרת is κρύος "Frost"
along with ברד, with the common shift between K and P and so ברד (Fridge, Frost)
but are still cognates of κρύος /קרת,

This shifting is evident in the word 'כפר' (kephor) 'Hoar-Frost' and this also a cognate
of גפרית, mistranslated 'Brimstone/Sulfur', but it is just another word describing wintry weather
such as Hailstone or Hoarfrost in the northern regions of the Levant.

Psalm 18:12
ברד וגחליאש
κρύος καὶ χαλάζας "Frost and Hail"

Re: 2 Samuel 22 vs Psalms 18

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:00 pm
by Isaac Fried
כפר KPR (related to כבר and קבר) is 'cover'; the כְּפוֹר, 'hoar frost', covers the ground. גפר GPR (related to גבר) is also 'to smear over'.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

Re: 2 Samuel 22 vs Psalms 18

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:43 pm
by Saboi
קבר - Funeral, Grave
κτέρεα, κτερείζω 'to bury with due honours'

למ Cover, Hidden
- בלם cover the mouth" (Psa 32:9)
- גלמ covering, clothes" (Eze 27:24)
- שלמ"garment, outer covering" (Deu 29:5)
- למϝ (Film)
- χλαμύς (Chlamus) mantle, covering
- χλανίς (Chlanis) upper garment
- κάλυμμα (Kalumma) head covering
- Cloth, Clothes
- למ (ρψ,λπ), κρύψω, κρύπτω

Re: 2 Samuel 22 vs Psalms 18

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:16 pm
by Isaac Fried
למ LM, 'tall and massive'.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

Re: 2 Samuel 22 vs Psalms 18

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 2:43 pm
by Saboi
קבר - Funeral

I can refine this, the Latin word is 'FUNERIS" but also spelled 'FUNEBRIS' and notice the addition 'B'
and 'F' interchanges with 'Q' .

>>ברνφ > Funerbis > Funeris

One will find that Latin is much closer to Phoenician and Mycenaean then Greek.

Re: 2 Samuel 22 vs Psalms 18

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 5:32 pm
by Saboi
Psalm 18:15 -and channels of waters were seen
ויראו אפקי ים
καὶ ὤφθησαν αἱ πηγαὶ τῶν ὑδάτων

2 Samuel 22:16 - and channels of the sea were seen
ויראו אפיקי מים
καὶ ὤφθησαν ἀφέσεις θαλάσσης

αἱ πηγαὶ - אפקי
- πηγαί - Spring, gush, running water

The Septuagint version of Samuel uses the word 'ἀφέσεις' (aphesis) , also the word translating 'remission ' in Mark 1:4, the other GK synonym is πάρεσις (paresis) from פרש 'Horse' and ἀφέσεις' (aphesis) from חפשה and חפש 'fabric for horseback riding from ἵππιος (of a horse). The word πηγῇ/אפקה (Aqua) 'running water' also roots Πήγασος (Pegasus) a 'winged-horse' and a very common symbol of the Phoenicians

Phoenician coin

Psalm writes ים, where-as Sam writes מים and these are very confusing because
the word מים can be מ ים 'from the sea' also אל הים means 'into the sea'

Jonah 1:4
יהוה הטיל רוח־גדולה אל־הים
LORD sent out a great wind into the sea
*ἁλιάων, ἅλιον,ἁλίοιο - of the sea

אל = ἐς 'into' (ל/ς)
בעלה = πόση 'Husband, Spouse' (ל/ς)


Re: 2 Samuel 22 vs Psalms 18

Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:55 am
by Saboi
Psalm 18:8 - כי־אתה תאיר נרי יהוה אלהי יגיה חשכי : ὅτι σὺ φωτιεῖς λύχνον μου κύριε ὁ θεός μου φωτιεῖς τὸ σκότος μου
2 Samuel 22:16 - כי־אתה נירי יהוה ויהוה יגיה חשכי : ὅτι σὺ ὁ λύχνος μου κύριε καὶ κύριος ἐκλάμψει μοι τὸ σκότος μου

This verse as many problems, such as the odd doubling of ' יהוה ויהוה' in Sam with a conjunction or augment inbetween
where as Psalm writes 'יהוה אלהי' ending with the enclitic.

The Septuagint translates two words, יגיה & תאיר as φωτιεῖς, this word is exclusive to this verse in the Septuagint and no information
on the study tool, so the LXX Scribe struggled defining יגיה, but the homolog is αὐγῇ, αὐγάζω 'Shine'. נגה (εν-).

ניר, נר - φανάριον, φανάρι "lantern, lamp, torch" * מנרה
חשך - σκότος 'Darkness
יהוה - διῆ ὑή
אלה - ἠρῶ, ἠέλιος, ἀέλιος, ἅλιος

כי - κε, γε, καὶ , ὅτι
־ו - The prefixing augment in Greek, only Spanish retains the conjunction.
אתה - αυτο, αυτη , τό, σὺ δὲ

The pronoun ἐγώγε is identical too אנכי

So the basic building blocks of both Greek & Hebrew are identical .

Re: 2 Samuel 22 vs Psalms 18

Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:31 pm
by Isaac Fried
קבר is 'cover by earth'. It is a member of the family of roots
גבר, הבר, חבר, כבר, קבר
גפר, חפר, כפר

Isaac Fried, Boston University

Re: 2 Samuel 22 vs Psalms 18

Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:16 pm
by Isaac Fried
רכב is a member of the family of roots
רגב, רהב, רחב, רכב, רקב

Isaac Fried, Boston University