B-Hebrew: The Biblical Hebrew Forum

We read there
מִפְּנֵי שֵׂיבָה תָּקוּם וְהָדַרְתָּ פְּנֵי זָקֵן
NIV: "Stand up in the presence of the aged, show respect for the elderly"
KJV: "Thou shalt rise up before the hoary head, and honour the face of the old man"
Here תָּקוּם = אתה-קוּם is with the PP אתה for the performer of the act קוּם, imploring him to do it.
But in Isaiah 7:7
כֹּה אָמַר אֲדֹנָי יהוה לֹא תָקוּם וְלֹא תִהְיֶה
KJV: "Thus saith the Lord God, It shall not stand, neither shall it come to pass"
NIV: "Yet this is what the Sovereign Lord says: It will not take place, it will not happen"
the תָּקוּם = אתה-קוּם is with the PP אתה for the the thing, namely, the said in the previous verse
נַעֲלֶה בִיהוּדָה וּנְקִיצֶנָּה וְנַבְקִעֶנָּה אֵלֵינוּ וְנַמְלִיךְ מֶלֶךְ בְּתוֹכָהּ אֵת בֶּן-טָבְאַל

Isaac Fried, Boston University

We're all aware that the forms for 2ms and 3fs are the same in the imperfect.

תַּעֲשֶׂה can be either you will do or she will do. The same with תָּקוּם and תִּהְיֶה.

I don't see what the problem is here. Since no one else assumes that תָּקוּם means אתה + קום, we don't have an inconsistency in our approach to the language. We simply see that specific prefixes agree with specific person/gender/number combinations. It could have been otherwise, but it is as it is.

Jason writes

I don't see what the problem is here. Since no one else assumes that תָּקוּם means אתה + קום, we don't have an inconsistency in our approach to the language. We simply see that specific prefixes agree with specific person/gender/number combinations. It could have been otherwise, but it is as it is.

Jason, may I ask you politely who are the "we" that are so lucky as to "simply" (SIMPLY!) have "no inconsistency in our approach to the language"?

Isaac Fried, Boston University

Hello Isaac

It is probably that the prefixes of the verbs are connected to the pronouns
1stperson singular - א of אני/אנכי
1stPerson plural - נ of נחנו/אנחנו (also to the suffix of a noun as ילדנו maybe)
2ndperson - ת of את אתה אתם אתן
3rdperson singular feminine - ת - probably to the suffix of the participle as שומרת

ְand as for the Y of the 3rd person singular masculine and plural feminine (also original with Y) - it is not so clear

But I don't think there is a reason to cut off verbs to full words. It is enough just to understand the form as it is.

Isaac Fried wrote:Jason writes

I don't see what the problem is here. Since no one else assumes that תָּקוּם means אתה + קום, we don't have an inconsistency in our approach to the language. We simply see that specific prefixes agree with specific person/gender/number combinations. It could have been otherwise, but it is as it is.

Jason, may I ask you politely who are the "we" that are so lucky as to "simply" (SIMPLY!) have "no inconsistency in our approach to the language"?

Isaac Fried, Boston University

Let's just say it means "everyone who speaks Hebrew other than Isaac Fried, who has developed an odd theory of his own." If you want to play a numbers game, Isaac, you are the one who is by himself here.

ducky wrote:But I don't think there is a reason to cut off verbs to full words. It is enough just to understand the form as it is.

Yod was also a suffix for feminine attached pronouns, such as in the following:

Jeremiah 11:15
מֶ֣ה לִֽידִידִ֞י בְּבֵיתִ֗י עֲשׂוֹתָ֤הּ הַֽמְזִמָּ֨תָה֙ הָֽרַבִּ֔ים וּבְשַׂר־קֹ֖דֶשׁ יַֽעַבְר֣וּ מֵֽעָלָ֑יִךְ כִּ֥י רָֽעָתֵ֖כִי אָ֥ז תַּֽעֲלֹֽזִי׃

This was an longer old form for רָֽעָתֵךְ. There are some instances of this suffix for 2fs, so it isn't unreasonable to expect the yod suffix on the imperfect forms of 2fs.

Hello Jason,

You are right, but I was talking about the prefixes.

Jason writes

Isaac, you are the one who is by himself here.

Oi vey. It is so sad. I am all by myself in this wide world (forum), while the rest of humanity is snugly enjoying the remarkable privilege of having "no inconsistency in our approach to the language".
To tell the truth? I am actually having good time here.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

just now somebody said to me:
יצחק, אין לזה תחליף
in which תַּחְלִיף (תַּחֲלִיף) = אתה-חל-היא-ף is here, 'substitute'.
Not to be confused with
אתה תַּחֲלִיף, 'you will replace or exchange'.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

There is also this
מַחֲלִיף = מה-חל-היא-ף, 'substitute, replacement'
as in
המורה המחליף, 'the substitute teacher'

Isaac Fried, Boston University