B-Hebrew: The Biblical Hebrew Forum

Dear All:

While reading through Job, the last section of 4:4, I read וברכים כרעות תאמץ. Looking at כרעות it is not an adjective, rather a noun. Translation probably would treat it as an adjective, but in the Hebrew context, is this not a noun referring to status?

What do you all think?

Karl W. Randolph.

The act כרע KARA, 'kneel, collapse, fold down', is a variant of the act קרע QARA, 'tear, rend', as in Lev. 13:56, in the sense of "tearing" or bending the legs at the joints. Hence, the QERA (Plural QRAAYIM כרעים) the freely moving thigh of Lev. 11:21.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

And not to forget the variant קרא QARA, 'issued a tremulant torrent of bits of sound'.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

Another possible variant is, methinks, חרא to sift out, separate, bend forth and expel, excrete.

Isaac Fried wrote:... But this is not linguistics, this is realistics.

I like this distinction.

Indeed. The more inclusive list of kin roots is
גרה, גרע
חרא, חרה
כרה, כרע
קרא, קרה, קרע
From גרה GRH (or GRR) we have the GERAH, 'cud', of Lev. 11:3, and the Ti-GRAH, 'prodding, irritating, provocation, quarrel, brawl', of Ps. 39:11. From גרע we have the מגרעה MI-GRA-AH, 'a lacuna, a hollow, a tear-out', of 1Ki. 6:6.
From חרא we have the XARAIYM, 'excrement' of Isaiah 36:12, and from חרה we have the XARIY, 'scorching', of Deut. 29:3.
From כרה we have the מכרה MI-KR-EH, 'mine, pit, excavation', of Zeph. 2:9.
From קרה QRH we have the מקרה MI-QR-EH, 'occurrence, a tear in the flow of events', of Deut 23:11, and the קורה QORAH, 'beam, log, a balk, a torn piece of wood', of 2Ki. 6:2.

The roots
אגר, עגר, גער, גהר
אחר
אכר, עכר, כער
קער
are also of the same meaning.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

kwrandolph wrote:Dear All:

While reading through Job, the last section of 4:4, I read וברכים כרעות תאמץ. Looking at כרעות it is not an adjective, rather a noun. Translation probably would treat it as an adjective, but in the Hebrew context, is this not a noun referring to status?

What do you all think?

Karl W. Randolph.

Are we thinking of כרעות as a reference to someone of "low status"?

The LXX translates כרעות here as ἀδυνατέω meaning "to be weak, helpless, without strength", and uses the noun ἀδύνατος in LXX Job to refer to certain persons who are as such.

Yes, indeed. ברכים קורעות = ברכים כורעות 'tearing knees', otherwise known an weak, or collapsing knees.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

Looking at this again, I personally would take וברכים כרעות, those "weak of/in knees" as more a reference to those who are cowardly, who literally go "weak at the knees" when scared/fearful.

The LXX translators appear to have taken a similar meaning, due to them translating תאמץ as θάρσος περιέθηκας/assigned courage.

S_Walch wrote:

kwrandolph wrote:Dear All:

While reading through Job, the last section of 4:4, I read וברכים כרעות תאמץ. Looking at כרעות it is not an adjective, rather a noun. Translation probably would treat it as an adjective, but in the Hebrew context, is this not a noun referring to status?

Are we thinking of כרעות as a reference to someone of "low status"?

No, I was not thinking of social status, rather the status of being bowed down, beaten down (not necessarily physical, but also mental, spiritual), dejected, just dragging.

S_Walch wrote:The LXX translates כרעות here as ἀδυνατέω meaning "to be weak, helpless, without strength", and uses the noun ἀδύνατος in LXX Job to refer to certain persons who are as such.

This is not a bad translation, as the person who’s beaten down feels as if he has no strength. Though how much of this translation influenced by the verb?

Karl W. Randolph.

kwrandolph wrote:No, I was not thinking of social status, rather the status of being bowed down, beaten down (not necessarily physical, but also mental, spiritual), dejected, just dragging.

Ah, right. So essentially would the translation look like: "And you have given strength to the knees of those beaten down/dejected"? I don't see any issue with this, and certainly fits the context.

It makes a lot more sense than the usual "you've made firm the feeble knees".

S_Walch wrote:The LXX translates כרעות here as ἀδυνατέω meaning "to be weak, helpless, without strength", and uses the noun ἀδύνατος in LXX Job to refer to certain persons who are as such.

This is not a bad translation, as the person who’s beaten down feels as if he has no strength. Though how much of this translation influenced by the verb?

Karl W. Randolph.

Looking through, I couldn't find another place where כרע was translated in the LXX as ἀδυνατέω. At least the LXX translator of Job appears to have been reading the Hebrew thoroughly and translating accordingly, rather than the usual word-for-word literal translation that other books have