Ex 5,18

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Jason Hare
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Re: Ex 5,18

Postby Jason Hare » Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:01 pm

Saboi wrote:The differences is explained through the Septuagint.

Exodus 5:21 - תִּתֵּֽנּוּ "Tit-ten-nu" (ἀποδίδοτε)
Leviticus 25:24 - תִּתְּנוּ "Tit-te-nu" (δίδοτε)

The word in Exodus 5:21 as a baked-in preposition, the 'ἀπο' > 'π' > "n" (Labial).

תִּתֵּֽנּוּ/ἀποδίδοτε; "give an account" cf. "the tale of bricks" that semantically differs from תִּתְּנוּ/δίδοτε. "give".

You're reading something into it that doesn't exist in reality. The difference has to do with pause, by which יִשְׁמְרוּ becomes יִשְׁמֹ֫רוּ and יְדַבְּרוּ becomes יְדַבֵּ֫רוּ. Pause does not account for what you're saying. You really must break with this notion that the Septuagint is what gives the Hebrew text meaning.
Jason Hare
Tel Aviv, Israel

Schubert
Posts: 69
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 2:05 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Ex 5,18

Postby Schubert » Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:13 pm

Jason Hare wrote:
Saboi wrote:The differences is explained through the Septuagint.
...

...
You really must break with this notion that the Septuagint is what gives the Hebrew text meaning.


I agree. Repeated references to the LXX serve no useful purpose.
John McKinnon

Saboi

Re: Ex 5,18

Postby Saboi » Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:13 pm

The Septuagint was written by Jews and a valuable source of Ancient Hebrew knowledge and its baked in prepositions.

משלחת = ἀποστολή (apostolḗ)
*complete homologue with the preposition and effeminine ending.

מְשַׁלֵּחַ "me-shal-le-ach" > ἀποστέλλεις (Gen 43:4)
וַיִּשְׁלַח "Vai-yish-lach" > ἀποστείλας (Gen 31:4)
וַיְשַׁלַּח "Vay-shal-lach" > ἐξαπέστειλε (Gen 45:24)
שָׁלַח "Sha-lach" > ἀπέστειλε (Neh 6:19)
שִׁלַּח "Shil-lach" > ἐξαπέστειλε (Judges 12:9)
הַֽתְשַׁלַּח "Hat-shal-lach" > ἐπιστέλλεις (Job 38:35)
תִּשְׁלָֽח "Tish-lach" > ἀποστελεῗς (Exodus 4:13)

Isaac Fried
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Re: Ex 5,18

Postby Isaac Fried » Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:36 pm

Lee Mcgee says
שָׁלַח "Sha-lach" > ἀπέστειλε (Neh 6:19)
שִׁלַּח "Shil-lach" > ἐξαπέστειλε (Judges 12:9)

Neh 6:19
אִגְּרוֹת שָׁלַח טוֹבִיָּה לְיָרְאֵנִי
KJV: "And Tobiah sent letters to put me in fear"
Judges 12:9
וַיְהִי לוֹ שְׁלֹשִׁים בָּנִים וּשְׁלֹשִׁים בָּנוֹת שִׁלַּח הַחוּצָה וּשְׁלֹשִׁים בָּנוֹת הֵבִיא לְבָנָיו מִן הַחוּץ
KJV: " And he had thirty sons, and thirty daughters, whom he sent abroad, and took in thirty daughters from abroad for his sons"

I have looked up the Greek in the dictionary to find
ἀπέστειλε, 'send, send forth'
ἐξαπέστειλε, 'send away'
but I don't see (also KJV) the שִׁלַּח הַחוּצָה of Judges 12:9 as 'sent away'.

Some people hold to the opinion that שִׁלַּח is a "stronger action" than שָׁלַח, for otherwise how to explain the coexistence of the different forms. I see no difference between the piel and the paal, they seem to me to be equivalent and are but the result of Hebrew having been developed variously and in parallel in different places and times. Actually, שִׁלַּח = ש-היא-לח with an internal היא for the performer of the act שלח.

As for the dagesh, I believe it to be an ancient, pre niqud, marking introduced to discreetly indicate a vowel. Thus before the niqud it was תּתּנּוּ with the first dagesh to mark the beginning of the word, the second dagesh a hint for the xiriq under the first ת and the dagesh in the נ a hint for the tsere, not a schwa.
The dgeshim are all (except in BKP) superfluous now and may be deleted with impunity (a counter example will be greatly appreciated.)

Isaac Fried, Boston University

Saboi

Re: Ex 5,18

Postby Saboi » Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:02 am

Word does not break down into ש-היא-לח, but אשלח is στέλλω "to set in order, to arrange, array, equip, make ready"

Songs 4:13 - שלחי > ἀποστολαί "parting gift"
Esther 9:19 - משלוח > ἀποστολή "dispatch"
Psalm 78:49 - משלחת > ἀπόστολος "expedition"
2 Chronicles 32:5 - שלח > στολή "equipment, armament"
Deuteronomy 22:19 - לשלחה > ἐξαποστεῗλαι " divorce a wife"

In Latin, משלחו is missus "send", in fact Mycenaean had no "L" and the Greeks borrowed it from "ל" and thus ἀποστολή came from or influenced by משלוח and the original Greek word is πέμπω (pempo) "Send".

Isaac Fried
Posts: 1505
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:32 pm

Re: Ex 5,18

Postby Isaac Fried » Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:41 pm

Lee Mcgee says
Songs 4:13 - שלחי > ἀποστολαί "parting gift"

Can it be that the young and innocent beloved is giving the king a parting gift (שלחי > ἀποστολαί ???) of an orchard of pomegranates? Are they parting now?
Look at Song 4:13
שְׁלָחַיִךְ פַּרְדֵּס רִמּוֹנִים עִם פְּרִי מְגָדִים
NIV: "Your plants are an orchard of pomegranates with choice fruits"
KJV: "Thy plants are an orchard of pomegranates, with pleasant fruits"
That שְלוּחָה is a branch or shoot sent forth by a plant or by the earth itself is pointed out to us in Isaiah 16:8
כִּי שַׁדְמוֹת חֶשְׁבּוֹן אֻמְלָל גֶּפֶן שִׂבְמָה בַּעֲלֵי גוֹיִם הָלְמוּ שְׂרוּקֶּיהָ עַד יַעְזֵר נָגָעוּ תָּעוּ מִדְבָּר שְׁלֻחוֹתֶיהָ נִטְּשׁוּ עָבְרוּ יָם
KJV: For the fields of Heshbon languish, and the vine of Sibmah: the lords of the heathen have broken down the principal plants thereof, they are come even unto Jazer, they wandered through the wilderness: her branches are stretched out, they are gone over the sea"

Word does not break down into ש-היא-לח, but אשלח is στέλλω "to set in order, to arrange, array, equip, make ready"

Can we have a reference to this אשלח is στέλλω ?

Isaac Fried, Boston University


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