"Behold Me" question

[Kenneth Greifer]

Is "Behold Me" hay nun nun yud based on the word "behold" spelled hay nun or the other word "behold" spelled hay nun hay?

[ducky]

Hello

Both הנה and הנני have the same source, and the source is הן.

I edited this comment, and I wrote it down with corrections.

[Kenneth Greifer]

David,

Thank you for answering me. I am not the most educated person when it comes to grammar, so I wonder if you could explain what you mean by context form and pausal form.

[ducky]

Hello

Some words in the Biblical Hebrew has two forms.
the word is written the same, but its pronunciation is different.

the term pausal form was given to form that stands in a pausing place
For example, the end of the verse.
but it can come also in the middle of the verse when a pause is needed.

So if the word is inside the verse with no need to stop, and you just keep moving to the next word, then this word would be in its "context form"

the context form is actually the common form, the regular form you see.
and the pausal form is only in specific cases.

the pausal form is actually the older form, and with time, through some process (which the Mobile Sheva was involved) it turned into the context form that was "taking over".

And the pausal form continued to be used only in specific cases.

the Dead Sea people probably used only the old pausal form, and probably didn't have the Mobile Sheva that caused this form to change into the "context form".
but the Masoretic Biblical Hebrew (and other ancient Hebrew scripts) did have the context and the pausal.

and so, if you notice, check the word הנני
every time it comes as an independent word, as a man says "Here I am!" - this calling is paused.
and so it would be voweled as הִנֵּנִּי which the stress is on the second syllable from the end

but when the word doesn't stand as an independent word, as a man says "here I am doing this and that", we don't stop in this word, and we keep moving to the next one.
and so it would be voweled as הִנְנִי which the stressed syllable is the last one.

I don't know if my explanation was clear enough, and I hope you understand me
I there is a thing that I didn't explain well, please tell me and I will do my best to explain it better.

[Kenneth Greifer]

David,

Thank you for the explanation. Your explanation is very clear and easy to understand.

[Isaac Fried]

Apparently, הִנֶּנִּי = הִנֶּה-אֲנֵי, 'here I am'.
The dagesh in the first נ is for the xiriq under the ה, this I understand, but why a second dagesh?

Isaac Fried, Boston University

[ducky]

Hello

First, I need to apologize and correct myself.
The question was if הנני is based on הן or on הנה.
And I said that both הנה and הן are from the same source,
And that הנני is based on הנה.

Well I wasn't accurate since the answer should be that even though the word הנני as "Here I Am" sounds closer to הנה, The word הנה is actually one step in the process of הן -> הנני.
Aand so, the main source is the הן.
And the הנה is one of the steps in the process that lead to the הנני.
(I will correct my first post).

I said that because the הנני comes in two forms (the pausal and the context).

The context form comes with the stressed at the end
הִנְנִי - hinnI (pronounced also as hinenI because of pronunciations reasons).
Therefore - it must be derived straight from the הן (and not from the הנה)
hin+ni

The pausal form, comes with the stress at the second syllable from the end
הִנֵּנִי - hinnEnni
And so, even though we can hear the הנה inside it, The main source is also the הן.

which the הן=hin used a suffix vowel "e" and then connected itself to the suffix "ni"
creating the form of "hinnEnni"

So both forms are to be seen from the הן

As for the Dagesh in the second N
I think it is a linking Num - Nun Energicum - between the letters as it happens also in verbs.
Which it is "hinne+N+ni"
this Nun is seens also in words as אינני or יסובבנו (as יסובבנהו).

I am quite sure of what I wrote, and I will glad if someone will ad or correct me if he thinks that I made a mistake.

[Saboi]

2 Kings 2:8 - הנה והנה (Sept. ἔνθα καὶ ἔνθα) "hither and thither"

הנה/ἐνθάδε "thither, hither"
הנני/ἐνθαδί (deictic, strengthened)

Daniel 7:8 - אלו/ἰδοὺ "behold" (Lt. illūc)

[ducky]

Hello

I have to say that the explanation that I wrote above fit the word הנני when it comes with Segol
and so are the words אינני ממני and יסובבנו

They all have a Dagesh in the Nun but it comes after a Segol

but the word הִנֵּנִּי is with Tsere and Dagesh, and not similar to the examples I wrote above.
More than that, there are cases which this word comes with Tsere, but there is Dagesh in the Nun - and that is the "accepted" way

So I can't say why sometimes there is a Dagehs in the Nun after the Tsere in the word הנני and הננו
it really confuses me

Maybe, and just maybe we can say that the while the word הנני with Sheva (and without Dagesh) and the word הנני with Segol (and Dagesh) are based on the הן (with the Nun Energicum for the Dageshed form)

The form of הנני with Tsere and Dagesh would be derived from the form of הנה as הנה אני which then, this Dagesh would represent another type of linking Nun which comes between two vowels
Like in English you say "a boy" but "an apple"

And so the Hinne+Ani got a linking N in the middle and was written as Hinne+n+(A)ni --> hinnEnni
maybe

[kwrandolph]

So I can't say why sometimes there is a Dagehs in the Nun after the Tsere in the word הנני and הננו
it really confuses me

It appears to me that sometimes the Masoretes assigned points on an ad hoc basis rather than following a strict pattern. Other times it appears that they misunderstood Biblical Hebrew. For these two reasons, we can’t trust the Masoretic points always to be accurate as far as meaning is concerned. There’s no question that those points don’t reflect Biblical Hebrew pronunciations, which have been lost.

Karl W. Randolph.