B-Hebrew: The Biblical Hebrew Forum

I'm confused about what the construct is in Hebrew

I had learnt it as when you have two nouns. So you get A of B. Melech Yisrael. The King Of Israel.

And I don't know whether "an A of B"(i.e. indefinite article) is valid, but certainly "The A of B" is very common.

And you can have more than two nouns.

Another case of construct is a noun with a possessive suffix. Like זַרְעוֹ (Gen. 1:12). his seed. That's "seed of him". So is construct.

But there are some other cases of construct..

Yom HaShishi יוֹם הַשִּׁשִּֽׁי (Gen 1:31)

It's translated as like an adjective.. as if one would say "red horse" . But Yom is listed as construct.

numbers like fifth, sixth, seventh e.t.c. are ordinal(as in, order). And 5,6,7 are cardinal.

If I look up whether ordinal is an adjective https://english.stackexchange.com/quest ... adjectives it says "An ordinal number is an adjective that denotes what place an object has in a certain order. The names of the ordinal numbers are usually derived from the cardinal numbers by adding -th."

I guess a noun followed by an ordinal is in the same form as a construct...

Also I notice that bibleworks which uses the groves wheeler classification, has nouns and adjectives, either can be in 'construct'. Yom is definitely a noun.. I guess Day of the 6th

But I thought with constructs at least in the noun noun case, you don't get a Heh definite article prefix on the first noun, and it seems you don't get one on the second either.. Whereas in the case of Yom HaShishi, you get the Heh on the second.. And fine Shishi is not a noun, it's a numeral, specifically an ordinal.. But it gets a Heh.

Then you have 2 Sam 22:1 בְּיוֹם֩ הִצִּ֙יל יְהוָ֥ה אֹת֛וֹ

BeYom is listed as construct but I don't see why. There's no "of" there. "In the day that God delivered him"

Psalm 81:6 שְׂפַת לֹא יָדַעְתִּי אֶשְׁמָע (a language I have not known)..

Sfat is listed as construct. Interestingly also translated as "a language" rather than "the language"..

But there's no 'of' there.

So i don't really understand what a construct is!

ralph wrote: I had learnt it as when you have two nouns. So you get A of B. Melech Yisrael. The King Of Israel.
And I don't know whether "an A of B"(i.e. indefinite article) is valid, but certainly "The A of B" is very common.

You mean "The A of the B"
When you write "The king of Israel" - Notice that Israel is defined by default (it is a private name).
"The king of the land".
The wife of the king".
And so on.

ralph wrote:Yom HaShishi יוֹם הַשִּׁשִּֽׁי (Gen 1:31)
It's translated as like an adjective.. as if one would say "red horse". But Yom is listed as a construct.
numbers like fifth, sixth, seventh e.t.c. are ordinal(as in, order). And 5,6,7 are cardinal.
If I look up whether ordinal is an adjective https://english.stackexchange.com/quest ... adjectives it says "An ordinal number is an adjective that denotes what place an object has in a certain order. The names of the ordinal numbers are usually derived from the cardinal numbers by adding -th."
I guess a noun followed by an ordinal is in the same form as a construct...
Also, I notice that Bibleworks which uses the groves wheeler classification, has nouns and adjectives, either can be in 'construct'. Yom is definitely a noun. I guess Day of the 6th

A general note about the adjective.
Adjective acts exactly as the noun they followed after.
If the noun is articled - so is the adjective.
If the noun is masculine (or feminine) - so is the adjective in the same gender.
If the noun is singular (or plural) - so is the adjective in the same way.

There are cases in the Bible which the noun is without an article and its adjective is with it (it is more common in the Mishnaic).
(There are also opposite ways - but these are rarer).
And so, these are "exceptions" to the common ways.

We can say that יום הששי is one of the exceptions.
But some scholars suggest that the combinations of יום + an ordinal number - are originally spoken and understood as a construct state, and so יום הששי (and others) represent the old style of talk (which in these combinations of a יום+adjective ordinal number - it was understood as a construct state.
And then we should ask: What about all of the cases when it is written ביום השני and so on (which the prefix B is articled by a vowel Patax).
And they answer that originally it was not articled - and the MT voweled the B with Patax (to define it without changing the spelling) whenever they could.

So this case of יום הששי is a special case - and don't use it to study or understand the way of the construct state - but see this case as it stands alone.

ralph wrote:But I thought with constructs at least in the noun-noun case, you don't get a Heh definite article prefix on the first noun, and it seems you don't get one on the second either.. Whereas in the case of Yom HaShishi, you get the Heh on the second.. And fine Shishi is not a noun, it's a numeral, specifically an ordinal. But it gets a Heh.

When the construct state is defined - the second part get's an article.
Just like in English (mirror).
The land of the king = The king's land.
Also here you see that the second part (king) gets an article while the first one (land) doesn't.

ralph wrote:Then you have 2 Sam 22:1 בְּיוֹם֩ הִצִּ֙יל י"י אֹת֛וֹ
BeYom is listed as a construct but I don't see why. There's no "of" there. "In the day that God delivered him"

If we expand the sentence to not use it as construct state it would be:
בַּיום אשר הציל י"י אתו
Notice the B prefix articled.

when we see a form like:
בְּיוֹם֩ הִצִּ֙יל י"י אֹת֛וֹ
The first part is ביום
The second part is the rest (הציל אתו).

Something like: in "God-saving-him's" day.
Or: "in the day of which God saved him (at it)" (I don't know if it is right to say that in English but I try to put the "of" for you)
Since the B is not articled, and there is a sentence that describes that day (which day), (and there is not linking word - as "which") it must be stuck together.

ralph wrote:Psalm 81:6 שְׂפַת לֹא יָדַעְתִּי אֶשְׁמָע (a language I have not known).

A language of which I don't know (it). (Once again, I don't know if it is right to say in English, but I try).
Or something like "I-don't-know-it's" language"

Since the שפת is in a construct state form (and of course without an article) and after that, there is a description for that שפת (that tells us what kind of language is it), then the first word (שפת) must be linked to the second part.

ralph wrote:Sfat is listed as construct. Interestingly also translated as "a language" rather than "the language".

As we said, the first part of the construct state is without an article.
And so the שפת as the first part is without an article.

thanks , but what is the construct?!

ralph wrote: (Psalm 81:6 שְׂפַת לֹא יָדַעְתִּי אֶשְׁמָע ) Sfat is listed as construct. Interestingly also translated as "a language" rather than "the language".

ducky wrote: As we said, the first part of the construct state is without an article.
And so the שפת as the first part is without an article.

In English article doesn't necessarily mean "the". There is an indefinite article (a) and a definite article (the).

My point is that it has no article written in explicitly, but an article is implicit/implied. It is translated/understood with the indefinite article ("a") rather than the definite article ("the")

So it's an interesting example since usually constructs are translated/understood with the definite article ("the").

But this construct is translated/understood with the indefinite article "a".

When you hear something that is unfamiliar to you - so it is undefined.

If you talk to someone and he speaks in an unfamiliar language
the you say: "He speaks in A languages that I can't understand".

(If you say: "He speaks in THE languages that I can't understand", then that's mean that you already heard him speak before, and you already defined that language with that description).

The trouble with translating into English is that it introduces a lot of interference, such as use of the preposition "of" which in Hebrew is irrelevant.

In English you have compound nouns. They are sometimes written adjoined (bedroom), sometimes with a hyphen (ice-cream) and sometimes separate (ballet shoe). In Hebrew they are always written separate, and the order is reverse from English (roombed, shoe ballet). If the first noun is feminine and ends in ה it turns into a ת just like ة (ta marbuta) in Arabic.

I've heard this called "the construct state" when referring to Hebrew, but never when referring to English. Ice-cream a construct state? No, it's just a compound noun or compound concept. In Hebrew this compound structure is much more common than in English precisely because there is no word "of."

Nowadays in Israeli Hebrew, you will hear של this and של that, של meaning "of" or "belonging to" but this is an adaption from European languages. I've heard that it appears in Torah once, but I can't find it.

To avoid this message being too lengthy, I'll say the rest in the next message.

ralph wrote:Like זַרְעוֹ (Gen. 1:12). his seed. That's "seed of him". So is construct.

This is what I meant in my previous message about how you are confused when you translate to English. זרעו does not mean "seed of him." It means simply "his seed." Possession is expressed differently in Hebrew than in English. In English nobody says "seed of him." It sounds convoluted, stilted, unnatural. זרעו is not convoluted, stilted or unnatural.

ralph wrote: But there are some other cases of construct..

Yom HaShishi יוֹם הַשִּׁשִּֽׁי (Gen 1:31)

Why would this be construct, anymore than without the definite article ה? I don't see a construct here.

ralph wrote: But Yom is listed as construct.

By whom?

ralph wrote:But I thought with constructs at least in the noun noun case, you don't get a Heh definite article prefix on the first noun, and it seems you don't get one on the second either.

If by construct you mean what I called a compound noun in my previous message, then the definite article ה always attaches to the second noun, which in English would be the first:
חדר המטות--the bedroom
נעל הבלט -- the ballet shoe

ralph wrote:Then you have 2 Sam 22:1 בְּיוֹם֩ הִצִּ֙יל יְהוָ֥ה אֹת֛וֹ

BeYom is listed as construct but I don't see why.

You could posit that ביום הציל ה' אותו is a phrase that functions as the second noun, but it seems simpler to me to assume that for some reason the author found it unnecessary to use the word "that". The meaning is obvious, so does it matter what grammatical form it is?

Hello Mira

של is a combination of ש+ל
In the Bible you see it linked to the next word
מטתו שלשלמה for example

Already in the Qumranic text (and at that time), it was used in a form of a word של which stand of its own - so it is not Europian influence.



יום השישי is considered (or understood) as a construct because the first word has no article definite while the second word has.
Regular adjectives act in the same form of the noun.
And so - it is not written היום הששי
and it is not written יום ששי
but they act in a different way that has a similarity to the construct form
(I wrote longer words about it in one of my comments to Ralph above)

ducky wrote:In the Bible you see it linked to the next word
מטתו שלשלמה for example

ש as a prefix is short for אשר
ל as a prefix is an alternative way of expressing belonging.

Can you point me to the verse where this occurs?

ducky wrote:Already in the Qumranic text (and at that time), it was used in a form of a word של which stand of its own - so it is not Europian influence.

Can you point it out to me in the תנ"ך?

ducky wrote:יום השישי is considered (or understood) as a construct because the first word has no article definite while the second word has.

No doubt you are right that that is what grammarians have decreed. But how does that affect the meaning?

Hello Mira

ש is probably not short for אשר.
(If I remember right, Scholars suggest they are different words).
Anyway, If we do want to say that it is the same word - so it would be that the אשר is an evolution of the ש (which is very early)

Song of Solomon 3:7

In the Bible, it doesn't come as an independent word.
It is a combination of "which of"
-אשר ל
-של
ָExactly as you see in the Bible שלי and שלנו
(First time I see it stands alone as של is in the Qumranic text around 30 BC)
יום הששי as a construct state or not doesn't change the meaning
It is just a linguistic talk that tries to define that combination