Deut 29 and Pronouns

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Jason Hare
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Deut 29 and Pronouns

Post by Jason Hare »

If you haven’t read Deut 29 recently, you might look at it. I find it fascinating how it shifts between 2mp to 2ms and back without warning. In fact, look at verses 9 and 10:
אַתֶּ֨ם נִצָּבִ֤ים הַיּוֹם֙ כֻּלְּכֶ֔ם לִפְנֵ֖י יהוה [אֲדֹנָ֣י] אֱלֹהֵיכֶ֑ם
  רָאשֵׁיכֶ֣ם שִׁבְטֵיכֶ֗ם זִקְנֵיכֶם֙ וְשֹׁ֣טְרֵיכֶ֔ם כֹּ֖ל אִ֥ישׁ יִשְׂרָאֵֽל׃
 טַפְּכֶ֣ם נְשֵׁיכֶ֔ם וְגֵ֣רְךָ֔ אֲשֶׁ֖ר בְּקֶ֣רֶב מַחֲנֶ֑יךָ
   מֵחֹטֵ֣ב עֵצֶ֔יךָ עַ֖ד שֹׁאֵ֥ב מֵימֶֽיךָ׃
The shift is so abrupt that it goes from “your little children and your women” in 2mp to “your stranger... your camp, etc.” in 2ms. Within the same sentence!

What do you make of that?
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Kenneth Greifer
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Re: Deut 29 and Pronouns

Post by Kenneth Greifer »

There are verses like that everywhere in the Hebrew Bible. It is very confusing to me because it makes no sense.
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Glenn Dean
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Re: Deut 29 and Pronouns

Post by Glenn Dean »

I wonder if it's may be due to "individual" versus "corporate" that might explain going from plural to singular.

So, the country of Israel does NOT have "little ones", but rather husbands and wives have "little ones" (so the plural is used, i.e. there are thousands of husbands and wives that have children). The country of Israel does NOT have wives, but rather husbands have wives (so the plural is used, i.e. there are thousands of husbands who have wives).

THEN we switch to foreigners. The country of Israel DOES have foreigners living in the land, but the individual people don't have foreigners (it is possible a family takes in a foreigner into their house, but my guess is it was more common that foreigners lived in their own houses). So the singular is used (singular because it is referring to the country of Israel, the country has foreigners).

That's my take,

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Re: Deut 29 and Pronouns

Post by S_Walch »

Is it something due to the nature of how to refer to what יִשְׂרָאֵֽל represents? It can be both a collective ("people of Israel") or singular ("Israel", either the man, or the land), and one can see the plural in certain verses referring directly to אִישׁ יִשְׂרָאֵֽל, and the swap to the singular as referring to just יִשְׂרָאֵֽל, even though the plural is still, somewhat, inferred.

That's what I think anyway. :)
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Kirk Lowery
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Re: Deut 29 and Pronouns

Post by Kirk Lowery »

I think what Glenn and Ste have suggested are very plausible. What is clear is that the initial 2mp pronoun in v9 clearly refers to Israel as a group of individuals. When the number shifts to 2ms in v10 the referent has not changed. It has to be Israel -- viewed collectively. So if the referent hasn't changed, what has changed? In all cases of the singular, it is the suffixed pronoun. Is there something (as Ste suggests) semantically different?

I guess the only way to resolve this is to view the usages of these nouns when suffixed: are they always suffixed with singular pronouns or plural or alternatively mixed somehow?

My guess is that it is the semantics of the suffixed noun that affects the choice of the 2ms vs the 2mp.

So...I agree with Glenn and Ste. :-)
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Moses Gummadi
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Re: Deut 29 and Pronouns

Post by Moses Gummadi »

Here's another example in Deuteronomy 6.

Plural in v1. וְזֹ֣את הַמִּצְוָ֗ה הַֽחֻקִּים֙ וְהַמִּשְׁפָּטִ֔ים אֲשֶׁ֥ר צִוָּ֛ה יְהוָ֥ה אֱלֹהֵיכֶ֖ם לְלַמֵּ֣ד אֶתְכֶ֑ם לַעֲשׂ֣וֹת בָּאָ֔רֶץ אֲשֶׁ֥ר אַתֶּ֛ם עֹבְרִ֥ים שָׁ֖מָּה לְרִשְׁתָּֽהּ׃

Singular in v2. לְמַעַן תִּירָא אֶת־יְהוָה אֱלֹהֶיךָ לִשְׁמֹר אֶת־כָּל־חֻקֹּתָיו וּמִצְוֺתָיו אֲשֶׁר אָנֹכִי מְצַוֶּךָ אַתָּה וּבִנְךָ וּבֶן־בִּנְךָ כֹּל יְמֵי חַיֶּיךָ וּלְמַעַן יַאֲרִכֻן יָמֶֽיךָ׃

The singular continues until verse 4 where the plural suffix is used in אֱלֹהֵינוּ instead of singular as in אֱלֹהֶיךָ. It continues further until it switches to plural in v.14 לֹ֣א תֵֽלְכ֔וּן אַחֲרֵ֖י אֱלֹהִ֣ים אֲחֵרִ֑ים מֵאֱלֹהֵי֙ הָֽעַמִּ֔ים אֲשֶׁ֖ר סְבִיבוֹתֵיכֶֽם׃.

Those of us who are familiar with KJV text see this all the time, since KJV uses thou/thee/thine for singular and ye/you/your for plural pronouns.

The singular verbs / pronominal suffixes refer to individuals who are called "Israel". Literal Jacob is ruled out in v.10. It's not "corporate" nation either, otherwise the phrase אַתָּה וּבִנְךָ וּבֶן־בִּנְךָ (thou, and thy son, and thy son's son) in verse 2 doesn't make sense, because the children and the grand children must be accounted within corporate Israel.

I think the text uses these pronouns deliberately to teach a spiritual truth to individuals possessing the character of "Israel" (כִּֽי־שָׂרִיתָ עִם־אֱלֹהִים), who have been "brought out of Egypt" (metaphorically redeemed from a state of bondage), etc. The plural refers to the community of "Israel" individuals.
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Jason Hare
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Re: Deut 29 and Pronouns

Post by Jason Hare »

It really is an interesting thing to note in the Hebrew texts. Do you think it has anything to do with how the texts were composed? That parts of one text were brought together with another text and they were spliced together?
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Moses Gummadi
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Re: Deut 29 and Pronouns

Post by Moses Gummadi »

Jason Hare wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 9:40 pm It really is an interesting thing to note in the Hebrew texts. Do you think it has anything to do with how the texts were composed? That parts of one text were brought together with another text and they were spliced together?
I guess it is basically due to their worldview which has hardly any resemblence to our modern ways of thinking. Modern civilisations are hyper-individualistic and externally focussed (making judgments using sensory inputs). Whereas many ancient civilisations were more inward looking (hearing the inner voice, instinct) and had a collective view of their society whilst recognising their individuality. The whole nation suffered defeat because of Achan's sin (Joshua 7:1). And he had to be "put down" for the sake of the nation.

It also reflects their beliefs. For example in Deut 29:2-3, Moses says they all had seen what the LORD did to Pharoah in Egpyt. Of course not everyone saw the things that happened in Egypt, for most of them were born in the wilderness. But for those guys they existed, perhaps as potentials hidden within their parents, and so saw through their parents' eyes. The writer of the NT book of Hebrews employs a similar device. He said Levi paid tithes to Melchitzedek "in Abraham" for he was "loins of Abraham" (Heb 7:9-10). This is a typical "Eastern" thinking. The whole tree, its leaves, fruits and seeds were once contained in a single seed as potentials. Or perhaps they believed in "Gilgul Neshamot", for in v.3 we have the singular "thine eyes" (עֵינֶיךָ). How else could someone born in the wilderness see with his (singular) eyes things that happened in Egypt?

So I take this flipping of number in verbs and suffixes as intentional, and not due to editing or stiching up multiple sources.
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