Isa 49:8

Classical Hebrew morphology and syntax, aspect, linguistics, discourse analysis, and related topics
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Kenneth Greifer
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Re: Isa 49:8

Post by Kenneth Greifer »

I changed my mind.
Last edited by Kenneth Greifer on Fri Apr 08, 2022 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kenneth Greifer
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Jason Hare
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Re: Isa 49:8

Post by Jason Hare »

Kenneth Greifer wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 7:34 am Jason,
When the verb "to be" is used with "to", it might always mean "to become" something, but this is the verb "to give", and I haven't checked every quote where they are used together, but it is possible that there could be an occasion to say "I gave (made) you for a purpose."
“I gave you to a prince.” → “I appointed you prince.” OR “I made you a prince.” I don’t think you’re getting what I’m saying. “I made you for a purpose” is certainly NOT the meaning of this verse.

“I made you for this purpose” would use a different verb for “made.” It would be either בָּרָא “created” or עָשָׂה “made.” It would not be נָתָן. We could say עֲשִׂיתִ֫יךָ לַדָּבָר הַזֶּה or בְּרָאתִ֫יךָ לַדָּבָר הַזֶּה for either “I have made/created you for this thing.” The phrase לִבְרִית is not “for a purpose.” It very literally means “I have set you as a covenant” or “I have appointed you {to be} a covenant.” I don’t think this verse is as controversial as it seems to be on this thread. The Hebrew is perfectly clear.
Jason Hare
Tel Aviv, Israel
The Hebrew Café
יוֹדֵ֣עַ צַ֭דִּיק נֶ֣פֶשׁ בְּהֶמְתּ֑וֹ וְֽרַחֲמֵ֥י רְ֝שָׁעִ֗ים אַכְזָרִֽי׃
ספר משלי י״ב, י׳
Kenneth Greifer
Posts: 661
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:05 pm

Re: Isa 49:8

Post by Kenneth Greifer »

I changed my mind.
Last edited by Kenneth Greifer on Fri Apr 08, 2022 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kenneth Greifer
Kenneth Greifer
Posts: 661
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:05 pm

Re: Isa 49:8

Post by Kenneth Greifer »

I changed my mind.
Last edited by Kenneth Greifer on Fri Apr 08, 2022 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kenneth Greifer
Kenneth Greifer
Posts: 661
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:05 pm

Re: Isa 49:8

Post by Kenneth Greifer »

I changed my mind.
Last edited by Kenneth Greifer on Fri Apr 08, 2022 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kenneth Greifer
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Jason Hare
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Re: Isa 49:8

Post by Jason Hare »

.
Jason Hare
Tel Aviv, Israel
The Hebrew Café
יוֹדֵ֣עַ צַ֭דִּיק נֶ֣פֶשׁ בְּהֶמְתּ֑וֹ וְֽרַחֲמֵ֥י רְ֝שָׁעִ֗ים אַכְזָרִֽי׃
ספר משלי י״ב, י׳
Kenneth Greifer
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Re: Isa 49:8

Post by Kenneth Greifer »

I changed my mind.
Kenneth Greifer
Glenn Dean
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Re: Isa 49:8

Post by Glenn Dean »

Hi Jason:

Wouldn't the translation be "and I will set you as a convenant of people" (i.e. future since this isn't the waw-consecutive but is the normal conjunction).

I also agree with "convenant" is in construct (because of the munah)

Glenn
kwrandolph
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Re: Isa 49:8

Post by kwrandolph »

Part of the problem with this verse is how to translate it. As I understand the verse, the closest I see in English to what the Hebrew expresses is “I made you a covenant people”. A too literal translation doesn’t bring that out.

Karl W. Randolph.
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Jason Hare
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Re: Isa 49:8

Post by Jason Hare »

I think the construct here might become epexegetical. “A covenant of people” → “a people-wide covenant.” That is, God has made the prophet a covenant for the whole people. Just as there was the “Mosaic” covenant, he is saying that there is now the “Isaianic” covenant—a covenant for the whole people represented by the prophet himself, who was to bring the people into the light.
Jason Hare
Tel Aviv, Israel
The Hebrew Café
יוֹדֵ֣עַ צַ֭דִּיק נֶ֣פֶשׁ בְּהֶמְתּ֑וֹ וְֽרַחֲמֵ֥י רְ֝שָׁעִ֗ים אַכְזָרִֽי׃
ספר משלי י״ב, י׳
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