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Re: Isa 49:8

Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2022 7:34 am
by Kenneth Greifer
I changed my mind.

Re: Isa 49:8

Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2022 8:18 am
by Jason Hare
Kenneth Greifer wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 7:34 am Jason,
When the verb "to be" is used with "to", it might always mean "to become" something, but this is the verb "to give", and I haven't checked every quote where they are used together, but it is possible that there could be an occasion to say "I gave (made) you for a purpose."
“I gave you to a prince.” → “I appointed you prince.” OR “I made you a prince.” I don’t think you’re getting what I’m saying. “I made you for a purpose” is certainly NOT the meaning of this verse.

“I made you for this purpose” would use a different verb for “made.” It would be either בָּרָא “created” or עָשָׂה “made.” It would not be נָתָן. We could say עֲשִׂיתִ֫יךָ לַדָּבָר הַזֶּה or בְּרָאתִ֫יךָ לַדָּבָר הַזֶּה for either “I have made/created you for this thing.” The phrase לִבְרִית is not “for a purpose.” It very literally means “I have set you as a covenant” or “I have appointed you {to be} a covenant.” I don’t think this verse is as controversial as it seems to be on this thread. The Hebrew is perfectly clear.

Re: Isa 49:8

Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2022 8:46 am
by Kenneth Greifer
I changed my mind.

Re: Isa 49:8

Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2022 9:40 am
by Kenneth Greifer
I changed my mind.

Re: Isa 49:8

Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2022 12:00 pm
by Kenneth Greifer
I changed my mind.

Re: Isa 49:8

Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2022 1:09 pm
by Jason Hare
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Re: Isa 49:8

Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2022 1:27 pm
by Kenneth Greifer
I changed my mind.

Re: Isa 49:8

Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2022 10:28 pm
by Glenn Dean
Hi Jason:

Wouldn't the translation be "and I will set you as a convenant of people" (i.e. future since this isn't the waw-consecutive but is the normal conjunction).

I also agree with "convenant" is in construct (because of the munah)

Glenn

Re: Isa 49:8

Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2022 2:44 pm
by kwrandolph
Part of the problem with this verse is how to translate it. As I understand the verse, the closest I see in English to what the Hebrew expresses is “I made you a covenant people”. A too literal translation doesn’t bring that out.

Karl W. Randolph.

Re: Isa 49:8

Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2022 4:24 am
by Jason Hare
I think the construct here might become epexegetical. “A covenant of people” → “a people-wide covenant.” That is, God has made the prophet a covenant for the whole people. Just as there was the “Mosaic” covenant, he is saying that there is now the “Isaianic” covenant—a covenant for the whole people represented by the prophet himself, who was to bring the people into the light.