Is this a defective feminine plural, or what?

Classical Hebrew morphology and syntax, aspect, linguistics, discourse analysis, and related topics
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Kirk Lowery
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Re: Is this a defective feminine plural, or what?

Post by Kirk Lowery »

Jason,

Karl is correct in that the Western Hebrew grammars use "conjugation" for imperfect, perfect, imperative, etc., and "stem/binyan" for qal, Nifal, etc. It's simply a matter of convention, after all.

I'd be interested in knowing what the standard academic/reference grammar of Biblical Hebrew is used in Israel and what terms they use.
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Re: Is this a defective feminine plural, or what?

Post by Jason Hare »

Kirk Lowery wrote:Jason,

Karl is correct in that the Western Hebrew grammars use "conjugation" for imperfect, perfect, imperative, etc., and "stem/binyan" for qal, Nifal, etc. It's simply a matter of convention, after all.

I'd be interested in knowing what the standard academic/reference grammar of Biblical Hebrew is used in Israel and what terms they use.
Still, it's no reason to browbeat someone for using the word "conjugation" for binyan when trying to use only English. I'm just saying that it's perfectly understandable that someone would use the term, for lack of a better one.

I've actually never seen an official introduction to biblical Hebrew written in Hebrew. For the most part, one would simply do a comparison of various forms to the modern syntax and give copious amounts of texts from the Bible, looking at examples of how the literary syntax finds expression.

I'll ask around, though. If there is such an authoritative grammar in the Hebrew language, I'd love to get a copy.
Jason Hare
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Nihil est peius iis, qui paulum aliquid ultra primas litteras
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ducky
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Re: Is this a defective feminine plural, or what?

Post by ducky »

Hello,

If conjugations are forms, then I don't see it weird to use it for בנין/stem
Since the stems are the different forms of the verbal system.
and each stem has the same internal forms (as qtl and yqtl).

But if it is what it is. Then so be it.
Conjugations are the internal stems forms.
and the stem בנין.


As for Hebrew, a common word for a form in that matter is משקל.
Another word is צורה.
both words are used to describe a form of a stem or a form of a noun
David Hunter
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Re: Is this a defective feminine plural, or what?

Post by Jason Hare »

Looking online, you find the syllabus for a biblical Hebrew course from the Hebrew University of Jerusalem from 2018 in which many resources are cited. Most interesting to my eye is בין לשון ללשון by Avi Horowitz, in which the author traces the distinctions between First- and Second-Temple Hebrew. There is also דקדוק הלשון העברית by Gotthelf Bergsträsser (1982) and the work of the same main title by Zvi Har-Zahav (1951). Another I'd be interested in from the list is Hayim Rabin's עיקרי תולדות הלשון העברית.

This is a class that I would certainly be interested in taking!
Jason Hare
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Nihil est peius iis, qui paulum aliquid ultra primas litteras
progressi falsam sibi scientiæ persusionem induerunt.

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Re: Is this a defective feminine plural, or what?

Post by Kirk Lowery »

Thanks Jason. I agree that berating David was ad hominem. I think this thread has exhausted its value.

These resources look interesting!
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Re: Is this a defective feminine plural, or what?

Post by Jason Hare »

ducky wrote:As for Hebrew, a common word for a form in that matter is משקל.
Of course, משקל would be a noun or adjective pattern. Verb patterns are arranged in בניינים and גזָרות (according to given root letters).

Noun patterns are normally called declensions in language studies, and verb patterns are called conjugations. I think conjugation would be a combination of binyan and gizra in Hebrew. The distinction between perfect and imperfect is simply called זמנים "tenses" in modern Hebrew terminology, whether we consider them "tense" or "aspect."
Jason Hare
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www.thehebrewcafe.com
Nihil est peius iis, qui paulum aliquid ultra primas litteras
progressi falsam sibi scientiæ persusionem induerunt.

— Quintilian
ducky
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Re: Is this a defective feminine plural, or what?

Post by ducky »

Hi Jason

Do you read Hebrew?
I mean I can send you a lot of stuff (articles, and photographs from books) about a lot of the subject you are interested in, that were written by some of the scholars you mentioned here.


About your last comment משקל is also used for verbs (not just for noun)
I can say משקל קטל and משקל יקטל (qtl/yqtl)

גזרה is also a name for a form, but it is used for the type of root
For example, הושיב and ירד have the same גזרה of a root (both roots starts with a weak letter Y).
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Re: Is this a defective feminine plural, or what?

Post by Jason Hare »

Yeah, David. If you have things to share, I'm up for getting more information.
Jason Hare
Tel Aviv, Israel
www.thehebrewcafe.com
Nihil est peius iis, qui paulum aliquid ultra primas litteras
progressi falsam sibi scientiæ persusionem induerunt.

— Quintilian
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Re: Is this a defective feminine plural, or what?

Post by ducky »

with Glad

tell me what subject is interesting you (classic vs. late by Horwitz)?
a general explanation about Semitic languages (by Rabin)?
a general explanation about the "birth" of Hebrew (by Rabin and more)?
Any other specific subject?
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Re: Is this a defective feminine plural, or what?

Post by Jason Hare »

I lean in the direction of Horowitz.
Jason Hare
Tel Aviv, Israel
www.thehebrewcafe.com
Nihil est peius iis, qui paulum aliquid ultra primas litteras
progressi falsam sibi scientiæ persusionem induerunt.

— Quintilian
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