B-Hebrew: The Biblical Hebrew Forum

Karl,

I'd like to know what you think of this essay. Naama Zahavi-Ely teaches BH at the College of William and Mary. I found it interesting because he is a native speaker of Israeli Hebrew but holds similar views of BH verb to you and I.
http://www.sbl-site.org/publications/ar ... icleId=771

Jonathan Mohler

NZE says

In English, the same verb is regularly used for either transitive or intransitive action, depending on context. In Hebrew, a root/stem combination conveys nearly always either one or the other—it is hardly ever ambiguous. More than that: while Qal verbs may be either transitive or intransitive (but not both in the same root), Piel and Hifil verbs are almost invariably transitive, Nifal is practically never transitive even when it is active, and Pual and Hofal are strictly passive. Even the (English) terminology I use to describe this more specific verbal action—transitive, intransitive, causative, reflexive—is foreign to my students. I often end up acting my lessons out physically.

Says I
1. Indeed, no transitive, intransitive, causative, reflexive, etc., only who does what to whom.

2. One must avoid the delusional, terminologically pompous, and embarrassedly confused "Hebrew grammar" books.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

Jemoh66 wrote:Karl,

I'd like to know what you think of this essay. Naama Zahavi-Ely teaches BH at the College of William and Mary. I found it interesting because he is a native speaker of Israeli Hebrew but holds similar views of BH verb to you and I.
http://www.sbl-site.org/publications/ar ... icleId=771

Jonathan Mohler

It’s hard not to have similar views, if one really immerses himself in the text. And reads the whole Tanakh, not just the parts that agree with one’s grammatical theories.

Like Naama, I’ve tried to read Tanakh reading the verbal conjugations as aspect, and found them lacking. I tried reading according to tense, and like Rolf Furuli found so many exceptions that it didn’t make sense. I tried reading exactly following the Masoretic points according to the Yeminite pronunciation, and even though I no longer think it is valid, still unconsciously tend to follow that pronunciation when reading an unpointed text.

As far as which textbooks she uses, I don’t know them.

I agree with her assessment that most students of the language study it for the purpose of reading Tanakh, therefore introductory teaching should be according to that. In fact, if I get an opportunity to teach Hebrew, my primary text to use in class would be Tanakh.

Karl W. Randolph.

Isaac Fried wrote:One must avoid the delusional, terminologically pompous, and embarrassedly confused "Hebrew grammar" books.

Yes! Map is not territory.

kwrandolph wrote:...if I get an opportunity to teach Hebrew, my primary text to use in class would be Tanakh.

Yes! Your map is the territory!

kwrandolph wrote:...stick with Waltke & O’Connor. Or you can think for yourself...

This is why I think you, Karl, would make such a good Hebrew teacher. Realizing that the maps (grammars and lexicons) were wrong, you spent so much time in the territory (reading and re-reading Tanakh cover to cover) that you wrote your own map. More importantly, your biography could inspire students to do likewise. You do inspire at least one student to do likewise.

Each Hebrew verb also identifies the tense of the verb. In English a verb can have three tenses. Biblical Hebrew only has two tenses - perfect and imperfect. While the three verb tenses in English are related to time, Biblical Hebrew verb tenses are related to action.

hebrew roots bible

davidedmorn wrote:Each Hebrew verb also identifies the tense of the verb. In English a verb can have three tenses. Biblical Hebrew only has two tenses - perfect and imperfect. While the three verb tenses in English are related to time, Biblical Hebrew verb tenses are related to action.

Dear David:

You need to learn grammar, for both English and Biblical Hebrew.

Among the past tenses for English are found imperfect, perfect, pluperfect. And for future there is simple future, future perfect, and so on. There are not just three tenses.

The definition of “tense” is a verbal form dealing with time, as measured by “when?”

Biblical Hebrew has no tenses, for it has no forms that deal with time. What you call “tenses” are properly called “conjugations”. It is incorrect to call those two conjugations “perfect” and “imperfect”, as those are two terms that deal with tense. Because this is Hebrew, we call those two conjugations “qatal” and “yiqtol”. What actions they represent is still debated, but when looking at the whole Tanakh, it’s evident that the conjugations deal with neither tense nor aspect, the two recognized categories of time measurement. Therefore, we shouldn’t call them by terms that refer to time.

Karl W. Randolph.

Some observations:

I agree that many students do not understand the grammatical terms "transitive, intransitive," etc. That doesn't always mean they are bad at using grammar. Some have particular weaknesses, but pointing out, "you used an intransitive" doesn't help because they don't know what it is. But some of the students who ace parsing also have no idea what an intransitive is. Personally, my preference would be to not use these terms but to either act out 9in face to face courses) or demonstrate through comparison (for those students who learn well by such methods). However, I teach students who sometimes end up going on to further study. Therefore, part of my responsibility is to help them learn to use a reference grammar, and that means that along with Hebrew they also learn grammatical concepts. They do become more skilled with all of their languages in the process.

Karl's idea about using Tanak as primary text is the best idea I have read in a long time. If I had a lot of time to work on it, I would develop my online course from scratch and do just this. Maybe in the future... To do it well, though, I still have to address those pesky grammar concepts--I won't get away from the fact that I have students who go on to further study at universities where they need to consult reference grammars. Happy medium must be found.

Worship is an act of religious devotion usually directed towards a deity. It is founded on the life, teachings, death, and the resurrection of Jesus Christ, and those who follow him are called "Christians."An act of worship may be performed individually, in an informal or formal group, or by a designated leader.
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Dear Davidedmorn,

I really fail to understand what this post has to do with the thread, or with B-Hebrew in general.

Wishing all members a happy Passover and Easter,

Yigal Levin,

co-moderator, B-Hebrew





davidedmorn » Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:46 am

Worship is an act of religious devotion usually directed towards a deity. It is founded on the life, teachings, death, and the resurrection of Jesus Christ, and those who follow him are called "Christians."An act of worship may be performed individually, in an informal or formal group, or by a designated leader.
end time prophecy