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Basic declarative sentence

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 4:19 pm
by kwrandolph
For those of you who were on this list a few years ago, I had a discussion concerning what is the basic structure of a simple, present action, indicative, declarative sentence spoken in prose Biblical Hebrew. The other person in the discussion claimed that it is the same as in modern Israeli Hebrew with subject, verb as a participle, and any object that followed. I disagreed.

So the next two times I read Tanakh through, I decided to analyze quoted spoken sentences with the following restrictions:

Must be in prose.
Must quote a spoken sentence.
Must concern an activity that is ongoing at the time of the speaking.
Must be indicative, declarative sentence, not command, subjunctive, or other mood.
Must have a form where the conjugation can be recognized in an unpointed text (that automatically excludes all third person masculine singular examples, including the 450 times כה אמר is used, as that form can be either Qatal or participle).

Of those that fit all the above, I found the following:

Sentences containing a subject, verb in Qatal, optional object were 172 verses before the Babylonian exile, 4 verses during the exile, and 12 verses afterwards for a total of 188 verses.

Sentences containing a subject, verb as participle, optional object were 105 before the exile, 8 during the exile and 27 after the exile for a total of 140. After the exile included all 16 conversations that met the criteria quoted in Nehemiah, all 4 in Esther, and so forth.

Why is this important? I figure that whatever is the default pattern in speech will also be the default pattern in written Hebrew.

A second lesson is that it shows that Hebrew was changing after the Exile. This is one of the indications that Hebrew was a dead language at that time, i.e. spoken only as a second language by educated people.

This is only a preliminary study that needs to be put in context of all recorded conversations. A second caveat is how many of the sentences with a participle should be taken as a noun describing an actor or action, and not a true verb?

I hope you all found this interesting.

Karl W. Randolph.

Re: Basic declarative sentence

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:17 pm
by Isaac Fried
Karl says
sentence spoken in prose Biblical Hebrew

Says I
There is no evidence that Biblical Hebrew was ever a spoken language. All claims about its birth and demise are, methinks, but חלומות באספמיא. In fact, I tend to think that the language in the mouth of the man in the street, and at home, was always closer to the prosaic, matter of fact, more precise and structured, spoken Hebrew of today.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

Re: Basic declarative sentence

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:43 pm
by talmid56
kwrandolph wrote:For those of you who were on this list a few years ago, I had a discussion concerning what is the basic structure of a simple, present action, indicative, declarative sentence spoken in prose Biblical Hebrew. The other person in the discussion claimed that it is the same as in modern Israeli Hebrew with subject, verb as a participle, and any object that followed. I disagreed.

So the next two times I read Tanakh through, I decided to analyze quoted spoken sentences with the following restrictions:

Must be in prose.
Must quote a spoken sentence.
Must concern an activity that is ongoing at the time of the speaking.
Must be indicative, declarative sentence, not command, subjunctive, or other mood.
Must have a form where the conjugation can be recognized in an unpointed text (that automatically excludes all third person masculine singular examples, including the 450 times כה אמר is used, as that form can be either Qatal or participle).

Of those that fit all the above, I found the following:

Sentences containing a subject, verb in Qatal, optional object were 172 verses before the Babylonian exile, 4 verses during the exile, and 12 verses afterwards for a total of 188 verses.

Sentences containing a subject, verb as participle, optional object were 105 before the exile, 8 during the exile and 27 after the exile for a total of 140. After the exile included all 16 conversations that met the criteria quoted in Nehemiah, all 4 in Esther, and so forth.

Why is this important? I figure that whatever is the default pattern in speech will also be the default pattern in written Hebrew.

A second lesson is that it shows that Hebrew was changing after the Exile. This is one of the indications that Hebrew was a dead language at that time, i.e. spoken only as a second language by educated people.

This is only a preliminary study that needs to be put in context of all recorded conversations. A second caveat is how many of the sentences with a participle should be taken as a noun describing an actor or action, and not a true verb?

I hope you all found this interesting.

Karl W. Randolph.
Dear Karl,

I would love to see your notes on this study, preliminary though they are. I don't know if private messaging here supports attachments, but if so, please send me a copy via PM. Or email me at Dewayne.dulaney@gmail.com.

Thanks,
Dewayne

Re: Basic declarative sentence

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:26 am
by Isaac Fried
תלמיד = אתה-למ-היא-ד with both PP referring to the person being engaged in the act למד LMD, 'learn'. In English learner = learn-er.

Isaac Fried, Boston University