Weingreen Composition - Chapter 30 and On

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Jason Hare
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Weingreen Composition - Chapter 30 and On

Post by Jason Hare »

Sorry to spread this over a couple of threads as we get started. I just wanted to open this one to put things more succinctly.

We've decided that we'll start with Weingreen's grammar and work from chapter 30 to the end of the book (if we keep it up), doing his translation exercises from English to Hebrew. You should be able to get an inexpensive used copy somewhere online.

Publication Information
Weingreen, Jacob. A Practical Grammar for Classical Hebrew. Carendon: Oxford UP, 1959.
ISBN-10: 0198154224
ISBN-13: 978-0198154228

If you have trouble finding a cheap copy, let me know via private message.

Please use the [‎hide] tag to keep from giving away spoilers when you have submitted your responses. The best practice is to open the full text editor and click on [‎hide] [‎right] and [‎heb] above the textbox. You then start typing inside the tags. You could actually hit return twice between [‎heb] and [‎/heb] to give space to write without tags. Altogether, it should like this:

Code: Select all

[‎hide][‎right][‎heb]
וַיְהִ֖י בַּשָּׁנָ֣ה הַשְּׁלִישִׁ֑ית וַיֵּ֛רֶד יְהֽוֹשָׁפָ֥ט מֶֽלֶךְ־יְהוּדָ֖ה אֶל־מֶ֥לֶךְ יִשְׂרָאֵֽל׃ וַיֹּ֤אמֶר מֶֽלֶךְ־יִשְׂרָאֵל֙ אֶל־עֲבָדָ֔יו הַיְדַעְתֶּ֕ם כִּי־לָ֖נוּ רָמֹ֣ת גִּלְעָ֑ד וַֽאֲנַ֣חְנוּ מַחְשִׁ֔ים מִקַּ֣חַת אֹתָ֔הּ מִיַּ֖ד מֶ֥לֶךְ אֲרָֽם׃
[‎/heb][‎/right][‎/hide]
And it will output this, which you should click "show" to reveal:
Spoiler: show
וַיְהִ֖י בַּשָּׁנָ֣ה הַשְּׁלִישִׁ֑ית וַיֵּ֛רֶד יְהֽוֹשָׁפָ֥ט מֶֽלֶךְ־יְהוּדָ֖ה אֶל־מֶ֥לֶךְ יִשְׂרָאֵֽל׃ וַיֹּ֤אמֶר מֶֽלֶךְ־יִשְׂרָאֵל֙ אֶל־עֲבָדָ֔יו הַיְדַעְתֶּ֕ם כִּי־לָ֖נוּ רָמֹ֣ת גִּלְעָ֑ד וַֽאֲנַ֣חְנוּ מַחְשִׁ֔ים מִקַּ֣חַת אֹתָ֔הּ מִיַּ֖ד מֶ֥לֶךְ אֲרָֽם׃
Good luck to us as we move forward with this project. I'll post an assignment just after this opening post.
Jason Hare
Tel Aviv, Israel
www.thehebrewcafe.com
Nihil est peius iis, qui paulum aliquid ultra primas litteras
progressi falsam sibi scientiæ persusionem induerunt.

— Quintilian
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Jason Hare
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Location: Tel Aviv, Israel
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Re: Weingreen Composition - Chapter 30 and On

Post by Jason Hare »

So, Exercise 30 is on page 170 of the textbook, and the English-to-Hebrew translations begin on the following page. The first translation exercise is this, which you should translate into Hebrew as best you can.
(1) Joseph saw his brothers among the (ones) coming to Egypt and he drew near unto them and he asked them, saying: ‘Is it well with (ל) your old father?’ and they said, ‘It is well, and behold our small brother hath come down with us’.
Jason Hare
Tel Aviv, Israel
www.thehebrewcafe.com
Nihil est peius iis, qui paulum aliquid ultra primas litteras
progressi falsam sibi scientiæ persusionem induerunt.

— Quintilian
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Jason Hare
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Location: Tel Aviv, Israel
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Re: Weingreen Composition - Chapter 30 and On

Post by Jason Hare »

(1) Joseph saw his brothers among the (ones) coming to Egypt and he drew near unto them and he asked them, saying: ‘Is it well with (ל) your old father?’ and they said, ‘It is well, and behold our small brother hath come down with us’.
My personal translation:
Spoiler: show
(1) וַיַּרְא יוֹסֵף אֶת־אֶחָיו בֵּין־הַבָּאִים מִצְרַ֫יְמָה וַיִּקְרַב אֲלֵיהֶם וַיִּשְׁאַל אֹתָם לֵאמֹר הֲשָׁלוֹם לַאֲבִיכֶם הַזָּקֵן וַיֹּאמְרוּ שָׁלוֹם וְהִנֵּה אָחִ֫ינוּ הַקָּטֹן יָרַד עִמָּ֫נוּ׃
Jason Hare
Tel Aviv, Israel
www.thehebrewcafe.com
Nihil est peius iis, qui paulum aliquid ultra primas litteras
progressi falsam sibi scientiæ persusionem induerunt.

— Quintilian
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Jason Hare
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Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:07 am
Location: Tel Aviv, Israel
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Re: Weingreen Composition - Chapter 30 and On

Post by Jason Hare »

Anyone want to go ahead and post their work on this first sentence?
(1) Joseph saw his brothers among the (ones) coming to Egypt and he drew near unto them and he asked them, saying: ‘Is it well with (ל) your old father?’ and they said, ‘It is well, and behold our small brother hath come down with us’.
Jason Hare
Tel Aviv, Israel
www.thehebrewcafe.com
Nihil est peius iis, qui paulum aliquid ultra primas litteras
progressi falsam sibi scientiæ persusionem induerunt.

— Quintilian
S_Walch
Posts: 314
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 4:41 pm

Re: Weingreen Composition - Chapter 30 and On

Post by S_Walch »

My vowel-points are likely wrong (I've spent much time with the DSS so I forget a lot of how the vowel-points are supposed to be), but here's my attempt:
Spoiler: show
וַיַּ֥רְא יוֹסֵ֛ף אֶת־אֶחָ֖יו בַּבָּאִ֣ים לְמִצְרַ֖יִם וַיִּגַּשׁ לָהֶ֔ם וַיִּשְׁאַ֨ל בַּֽהֶ֔ם לֵאמֹ֔ר הֲט֤וֹב לַאֲבִיכֶם הַזָּקֵ֖ן וַיֹּאמְר֗וּ הֲט֤וֹב וְהִנֵּ֨ה יֵרֵ֛ד אִתָּ֛נוּ אָחִ֥ינוּ הַקָּטֹן
Ste Walch
ducky
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Re: Weingreen Composition - Chapter 30 and On

Post by ducky »

Hi, Ste Walch

I don't know if we should respond or not.
But I already saw your translation,
and without referring to everything, I just saw some stuff that was "sticking out"...
I'm talking about the preposition and prefixes that you chose, and I think you need to check some stuff.

1. ויגש להם
What is the (common) preposition that comes after this word ויגש and so on?
Is it really ל?

2. וישאל בהם
You want to say that Joseph asked his brothers about their father.
What is the (common) preposition after this וישאל and so on for that context?
and when does, usually, this preposition ב comes after שאל?

3. הטוב
you wrote this first as a question (with the prefix ה as the interrogative particle).
just check how you wrote the answer.

4. ירד
You voweled it in the imperfect form. why?
(could be that I don't understand what "hath come down" means).
David Hunter
S_Walch
Posts: 314
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 4:41 pm

Re: Weingreen Composition - Chapter 30 and On

Post by S_Walch »

ducky wrote:Hi, Ste Walch

I don't know if we should respond or not.
Please, comment away!
1. ויגש להם
What is the (common) preposition that comes after this word ויגש and so on?
Is it really ל?
I was trying to avoid doing searches in the Tanakh and going off what I could remember; I see now that the common preposition should be אֶל.

So אֲלֵיהֶם would be my change.
2. וישאל בהם
You want to say that Joseph asked his brothers about their father.
What is the (common) preposition after this וישאל and so on for that context?
and when does, usually, this preposition ב comes after שאל?
Was taking my queue from the several "And [Saul/David/the Israelites] inquired of Yahweh" in places such as Judg 20:23; 1 Sam 10:22, 30:8 etc.
3. הטוב
you wrote this first as a question (with the prefix ה as the interrogative particle).
just check how you wrote the answer.
Thanks for the catch on that one.
4. ירד
You voweled it in the imperfect form. why?
(could be that I don't understand what "hath come down" means).
I'll defer to my "[m]y vowel-points are likely wrong" comment at the start of my first post :)

Guessing this should be perfect then?: יָרַד
Ste Walch
ducky
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Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:01 pm

Re: Weingreen Composition - Chapter 30 and On

Post by ducky »

Hi, Ste Walch
and thanks.

So I think that the point is to do as you did, not looking at the bible, and that is great.

So you saw אליהם - and that is right.
The ל can be used after the Hiphil for that root - (next to אל)

when the ב comes after the שאל - it usually comes when one ask God or other divine - or more as an inquire and search - and not just as a simple question.

הטוב - I guess you wrote that in some sort of a typo when the first one "confused" you. (it happens to all of us).

ירד - you figured that alone.
David Hunter
S_Walch
Posts: 314
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 4:41 pm

Re: Weingreen Composition - Chapter 30 and On

Post by S_Walch »

ducky wrote:when the ב comes after the שאל - it usually comes when one ask God or other divine - or more as an inquire and search - and not just as a simple question.
You know I'd never noticed that before - a search has indeed shown this to be true.

So in this case the usual verb + direct object marker is the way : אֹתָם :)
Ste Walch
ducky
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Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:01 pm

Re: Weingreen Composition - Chapter 30 and On

Post by ducky »

Yes. you can write it in two words: וישאל אתם
or, you can write the verb and its object in one word
...?
David Hunter
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