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Weingreen Composition - Chapter 30 and On
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Re: Weingreen Composition - Chapter 30 and On
Staying on top of things.
Last edited by Jonathan Beck on Fri May 22, 2020 1:16 am, edited 8 times in total.
Jonathan Beck
Hebrew Union College - Jewish Institute of Religion, Cincinnati
Interim Pastor, Norwood Grace UMC, Cincinnati, OH.
Hebrew Union College - Jewish Institute of Religion, Cincinnati
Interim Pastor, Norwood Grace UMC, Cincinnati, OH.
- Jason Hare
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Re: Weingreen Composition - Chapter 30 and On
My submission:(4) The prophet called unto the people who had gathered together upon the mountain and he said: ‘Choose ye this day between the Lord and (between) the gods of Canaan’.
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Jason Hare
Tel Aviv, Israel
The Hebrew Café
יוֹדֵ֣עַ צַ֭דִּיק נֶ֣פֶשׁ בְּהֶמְתּ֑וֹ וְֽרַחֲמֵ֥י רְ֝שָׁעִ֗ים אַכְזָרִֽי׃
ספר משלי י״ב, י׳
Tel Aviv, Israel
The Hebrew Café
יוֹדֵ֣עַ צַ֭דִּיק נֶ֣פֶשׁ בְּהֶמְתּ֑וֹ וְֽרַחֲמֵ֥י רְ֝שָׁעִ֗ים אַכְזָרִֽי׃
ספר משלי י״ב, י׳
- Jason Hare
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Re: Weingreen Composition - Chapter 30 and On
I was just wondering about the word מגן in the אשר phrase [אשר מגן צריך בידך]. Did you mean "protect"? Why not נתן?kwrandolph wrote:[right]יצא הכהן העיר ויברך את אברהם ויאמר ברוך אתה ליהוה אשר מגן צריך בידך ותן לי הנפש והרכש קח לך[/right]
I assume that צריך means צָרֶ֫יךָ over against אֹיְבֶ֫יךָ. I think they're pretty much synonymous, so either can be used.
Jason Hare
Tel Aviv, Israel
The Hebrew Café
יוֹדֵ֣עַ צַ֭דִּיק נֶ֣פֶשׁ בְּהֶמְתּ֑וֹ וְֽרַחֲמֵ֥י רְ֝שָׁעִ֗ים אַכְזָרִֽי׃
ספר משלי י״ב, י׳
Tel Aviv, Israel
The Hebrew Café
יוֹדֵ֣עַ צַ֭דִּיק נֶ֣פֶשׁ בְּהֶמְתּ֑וֹ וְֽרַחֲמֵ֥י רְ֝שָׁעִ֗ים אַכְזָרִֽי׃
ספר משלי י״ב, י׳
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Re: Weingreen Composition - Chapter 30 and On
The verb מגן according to the concordance I used, is found only three times in Tanakh. Its meaning is “to deliver” in this case “to deliver into your hands”.Jason Hare wrote:I was just wondering about the word מגן in the אשר phrase [אשר מגן צריך בידך]. Did you mean "protect"? Why not נתן?kwrandolph wrote:[right]יצא הכהן העיר ויברך את אברהם ויאמר ברוך אתה ליהוה אשר מגן צריך בידך ותן לי הנפש והרכש קח לך[/right]
The noun מגן comes from the root גנן “to protect”.
Agreed.Jason Hare wrote:I assume that צריך means צָרֶ֫יךָ over against אֹיְבֶ֫יךָ. I think they're pretty much synonymous, so either can be used.
Karl W. Randolph.
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Re: Weingreen Composition - Chapter 30 and On
The prophet called unto the people who had gathered together upon the mountain and he said: ‘Choose ye this day between the Lord and (between) the gods of Canaan’.
Unlike the last example, this one has no clear Biblical source for copying and pasting. It’s clearly taken from 1 Kings 18:19–39
Karl W. Randolph.
Unlike the last example, this one has no clear Biblical source for copying and pasting. It’s clearly taken from 1 Kings 18:19–39
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Karl W. Randolph.
- Jason Hare
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Re: Weingreen Composition - Chapter 30 and On
I see. You meant מִגֵּן as in Genesis 14:20:kwrandolph wrote:The verb מגן according to the concordance I used, is found only three times in Tanakh. Its meaning is “to deliver” in this case “to deliver into your hands”.
וּבָרוּךְ֙ אֵ֣ל עֶלְי֔וֹן אֲשֶׁר־מִגֵּ֥ן צָרֶ֖יךָ בְּיָדֶ֑ךָ וַיִּתֶּן־ל֥וֹ מַעֲשֵׂ֖ר מִכֹּֽל׃
So does the verb לְהָגֵן, which is a hiphil form meaning "to protect" (Isaiah 31:5; Zechariah 9:15; 12:8). The imperfect form is יָגֵן... and this hiphil verb is used in all tenses in modern Hebrew, so that מֵגֵן 'protecting' looks just like the unpointed מגן, which I've never heard used in modern Hebrew (so I may have overlooked it when reading Genesis in the past—but it'll certainly stick out for me now!).kwrandolph wrote:The noun מגן comes from the root גנן “to protect”.
If I were to choose a word from the modern lexicon, I would go with either מָסַר or הִסְגִּיר as 'hand [someone] over.'
Jason Hare
Tel Aviv, Israel
The Hebrew Café
יוֹדֵ֣עַ צַ֭דִּיק נֶ֣פֶשׁ בְּהֶמְתּ֑וֹ וְֽרַחֲמֵ֥י רְ֝שָׁעִ֗ים אַכְזָרִֽי׃
ספר משלי י״ב, י׳
Tel Aviv, Israel
The Hebrew Café
יוֹדֵ֣עַ צַ֭דִּיק נֶ֣פֶשׁ בְּהֶמְתּ֑וֹ וְֽרַחֲמֵ֥י רְ֝שָׁעִ֗ים אַכְזָרִֽי׃
ספר משלי י״ב, י׳
- Jason Hare
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Re: Weingreen Composition - Chapter 30 and On
I think it's better to type it out yourself anyway.kwrandolph wrote:Unlike the last example, this one has no clear Biblical source for copying and pasting. It’s clearly taken from 1 Kings 18:19–39
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When the verb is in the initial position, it would be most natural to use it as a vav-consecutive. Instead of קרא, it should be ויקרא vayyiqrāʾ. This came up in your previous post, too, but I didn't say anything.
Apart from that, your contribution is the same as mine.
[/quote]kwrandolph wrote:Ah, the spoiler hide worked. Thanks.
It's a great idea!
Jason Hare
Tel Aviv, Israel
The Hebrew Café
יוֹדֵ֣עַ צַ֭דִּיק נֶ֣פֶשׁ בְּהֶמְתּ֑וֹ וְֽרַחֲמֵ֥י רְ֝שָׁעִ֗ים אַכְזָרִֽי׃
ספר משלי י״ב, י׳
Tel Aviv, Israel
The Hebrew Café
יוֹדֵ֣עַ צַ֭דִּיק נֶ֣פֶשׁ בְּהֶמְתּ֑וֹ וְֽרַחֲמֵ֥י רְ֝שָׁעִ֗ים אַכְזָרִֽי׃
ספר משלי י״ב, י׳
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Re: Weingreen Composition - Chapter 30 and On
Oooo, I'm actually last on this one!
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Last edited by S_Walch on Fri May 22, 2020 6:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ste Walch
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Re: Weingreen Composition - Chapter 30 and On
Here’s one place where I’ve learned to disagree with Weingreen—the initial verb in indicative mood in a passage is in Qatal, not Yiqtol. If the initial verb is Yiqtol or Yiqtol preceded with a waw, then it indicates a continuation of a previous idea, or to carry along the narrative, or the indication of another mood such as subjunctive, anticipatory, intent, or some other of the Biblical Hebrew moods.Jason Hare wrote:When the verb is in the initial position, it would be most natural to use it as a vav-consecutive. Instead of קרא, it should be ויקרא vayyiqrāʾ. This came up in your previous post, too, but I didn't say anything.
Because the sentences by Weingreen are written as initial sentences and not as continuation, I then write the initial verb as Qatal.
Karl W. Randolph.
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Re: Weingreen Composition - Chapter 30 and On
I too wrote Qatal קָרָא as Karl, specifically for the same reason he's done so: Weingreen's sentence doesn't begin with the "And" he's done in previous paragraphs (1 and 2; quite a lot of times in 2!). I believed this was intentional on Weingreen's part, as I presumed he would want people to have experience doing both Wayiqtol and Qatal verbs.
Plus it gives a sort of variance in the narrative, which judging from how it is in Weingreen doesn't look like it's supposed to be seen as continuing on one paragraph to the other.
Plus it gives a sort of variance in the narrative, which judging from how it is in Weingreen doesn't look like it's supposed to be seen as continuing on one paragraph to the other.
Ste Walch