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Re: Weingreen Composition - Chapter 30 and On
Posted: Sat May 23, 2020 9:04 am
by Jason Hare
My contribution:
Exercise 30
(5) And the Lord spoke unto Moses saying, ‘Why dost[a] thou cry unto Me? Speak unto them and they shall go into the midst of the sea and they shall see that I shall not forsake them.’
[a. Use the imperf. for continued action.]
- Hidden Text
(5) וַיְדַבֵּר יַהְוֶה אֶל־מֹשֶׁה לֵאמֹר לָ֫מָּה תִּצְעַק אֵלַי דַּבֵּר אֲלֵיהֶם וְהֵ֫מָּה יֵֽלְכוּ אֶל־תּוֹךְ הַיָּם וְרָאוּ כִּי אָנֹכִי לֹא אֶנְטְשֵׁם (או אֶעֶזְבֵם)׃
Re: Weingreen Composition - Chapter 30 and On
Posted: Sat May 23, 2020 9:50 am
by S_Walch
Mine:
- Hidden Text
וידבר יהוה אל משה לאמר למה תצעק אלי תאמר אליהם ויבאו בתוך הים ויראו כי לא אעזב אתהם
וַיְדַבֵּר יהוה אֶל־מֹשֶׁה לֵּאמֹר לָמָּה תִּצְעַק אֵלָָי תֹאמַר אֲלֵיהֶם וְיָבֹאוּ בְתוֹךְ הַיָּם וַיִּרְאוּ כִּי לֹא אֶעֱזֹב אֶתְהֶם
Re: Weingreen Composition - Chapter 30 and On
Posted: Sat May 23, 2020 9:53 am
by ducky
- Hidden Text
וַיְדַבֵּר י"י אֶל מֹשֶׁה לֵאמֹר לָמָּה תִצְעַק אֵלָי דַּבֵּר אֲלֵיהֶם וְיָבֹאוּ בְּתוֹךְ הַיָּם וְרָאוּ כִּי לֹא אֶעֶזְבֵם
in the Bible it is
מה תצעק אלי
Re: Weingreen Composition - Chapter 30 and On
Posted: Sat May 23, 2020 10:43 am
by kwrandolph
Here is my “translation”. It’s not an exact word for word one, so it includes notes saying why I deviate from an exact translation. Again, this is from Exodus 14, so I did a little bit of copying and pasting, then revising to fit the “translation”.
- Hidden Text
[right]וידבר יהוה אל משה לאמר מה תצעק אלי דבר אלהם ויבאו בתוך הים וראו כי לא עזבתים[/right]
Translation notes:
The phrase ויבאו בתוך הים is not a future, rather has the meaning ˀ“that they should go in the midst of the sea”
The verb וראו introduces a side issue, hence Qatal.
The verb עזבתים refers to a present, ongoing action, hence Qatal.
Karl W. Randolph.
Re: Weingreen Composition - Chapter 30 and On
Posted: Sat May 23, 2020 1:11 pm
by Jason Hare
With everyone's suggestion, I changed my תקרא to תצעק.
Re: Weingreen Composition - Chapter 30 and On
Posted: Sat May 23, 2020 1:34 pm
by Jason Hare
Hey, Ste!
S_Walch wrote:- Hidden Text
וַיְדַבֵּר יהוה אֶל־מֹשֶׁה לֵּאמֹר לָמָּה תִּצְעַק אֵלָָי תֹאמַר אֲלֵיהֶם וְיָבֹאוּ בְתוֹךְ הַיָּם וַיִּרְאוּ כִּי לֹא אֶעֱזֹב אֶתְהֶם
Just be aware of the stress difference between
לָ֫מָּה láma and
לָמָה lamá, although they are basically the same word! It would affect how we read this sentence, and I tend to mark stress accents with the accent mark
ם֫ oleh to be sure.
The form
אֵלָי is technically a pausal form. It normally has a
patach rather than a
kamats.
Although the distinction does break down at times, you might tie
לְדַבֵּר in your mind to "speak" and
לוֹמַר (that is,
אָמַר) to "say." It would be better to translate "speak unto them" as
דַּבֵּר אֲלֵיהֶם.
I contemplated using
בּוֹא instead of
הָלַךְ, but I went with the latter. I guess everyone else checked what was written in the text of the Bible.
For sure, though,
וַיִּרְאוּ is a
narrative past form. You should either write
וְרָאוּ, which would be a vav-consecutive perfect, or
וְיִרְאוּ (without the telltale
וַ□ּ va + dagesh of the narrative past). The
vayyiqtol cannot be used to say what they "will" or "shall" do afterward. That is either
veqatal or
veyiqtol (which is different from
vayyiqtol).
Re: Weingreen Composition - Chapter 30 and On
Posted: Sat May 23, 2020 1:49 pm
by S_Walch
Thanks for the tips, Jason, especially concerning the right niqqud to use.
With regards to
בּוֹא as opposed to
הָלַךְ, to me my initial reaction to seeing the latter is "walk", with the former "go" or "enter" (this is more than likely due to the flashcards I have used and continue to use), so in retroversions (of sorts) like this I would be predisposed to go with the former, though obviously both can be used as synonyms if one wants.
Once again though, I see it's the niqqud where I'm tripping up most times
Re: Weingreen Composition - Chapter 30 and On
Posted: Sat May 23, 2020 2:03 pm
by Jonathan Beck
Here is mine. ִI'm trying my best to do mine from memory so I can't always remember things exactly. I have a couple of questions on some stuff.
- Hidden Text
וַיְדַבֵּר יהוה אֶל־מֹשֶׁה לֵאמֹר לָמָה תִזְעַק אֵלַי׃ דַּבֵּר אֲלֵיהֶם וְהָלְכוּ בְתוֹךְ־הַיָּם וְרָאוּ כִי לֹא אֱעֶזֹבֵהֶם
Re: Weingreen Composition - Chapter 30 and On
Posted: Sat May 23, 2020 2:18 pm
by Jason Hare
S_Walch wrote:Thanks for the tips, Jason, especially concerning the right niqqud to use.
With regards to
בּוֹא as opposed to
הָלַךְ, to me my initial reaction to seeing the latter is "walk", with the former "go" or "enter" (this is more than likely due to the flashcards I have used and continue to use), so in retroversions (of sorts) like this I would be predisposed to go with the former, though obviously both can be used as synonyms if one wants.
Once again though, I see it's the niqqud where I'm tripping up most times
At least in modern Hebrew, we normally have to add ברגל to indicate walking as opposed to other ways of going. That is:
איך הגעת לשם? הלכת ברגל?
How did you get there? Did you walk?
There's probably a difference between ובאו בתוך המים and והלכו בתוך המים. So, I would prefer with ל for entrance or destination with הלך and ב for the same with בוא. Many times, though, the biblical language doesn't have any preposition after בוא for whatever reason.
ויבא בית יהוה
And he entered the house of the Lord.
Maybe it's that in the Bible there wasn't a whole lot of choice about how to "go" somewhere. You either walked or rode on some beast of burden. If they wanted to stress that you went on an animal, it would be with רכב על and the animal. Otherwise, it would be הלך.
Thanks for the interaction!!
Re: Weingreen Composition - Chapter 30 and On
Posted: Sat May 23, 2020 2:19 pm
by Jason Hare
Oh, Ste... I wanted to ask why you chose אֶתְהֶם instead of אֹתָם. I'm not sure that I'd seen that form. It appears five times in the Tanach. Personally, I went with the object suffix.