Weingreen Grammar, Composition 31.6

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Jason Hare
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Weingreen Grammar, Composition 31.6

Postby Jason Hare » Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:13 pm

Here’s the text for the next exercise:

(6) And it came to pass as Jacob was crossing (inf. const.) the river that (waw consec.) a man fought with him all the night until the morning. And the man said unto him, ‘Let me go (Piel of שׁלח), for I am an angel of God’; and Jacob said, ‘I will not let thee go until [עַד־אֲשֶׁר] thou hast blessed me’. And the angel blessed him and Jacob let him go.
Jason Hare
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www.thehebrewcafe.com
Nihil est peius iis, qui paulum aliquid ultra primas litteras
progressi falsam sibi scientiæ persusionem induerunt.

— Quintilian

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Jason Hare
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Re: Weingreen Grammar, Composition 31.6

Postby Jason Hare » Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:20 pm

My submission:

Spoiler: show
וַיְהִי כַּעֲבֹר יַעֲקֹב אֶת־הַנָּהָר וַיֵּאָבֵק אִתּוֹ אִישׁ כָּל־הַלַּ֫יְלָה עַד־הַבֹּ֫קֶר׃ וַיֹּ֫אמֶר אֵלָיו הָאִישׁ שַׁלְּחֵ֫נִי כִּי מַלְאַךְ אֱלֹהִים אָנֹכִי׃ וַיֹּ֫אמֶר יַעֲקֹב לֹא אֲשַׁלֵּחֲךָ עַד־אֲשֶׁר בֵּרַכְתָּ֫נִי׃ וַיְבָֽרְכֵ֫הוּ הַמַּלְאָךְ וַיְשַׁלְּחֵ֫הוּ יַעֲקֹב׃


I went through my thought process over here on the Hebrew Café blog. Enjoy!
Jason Hare
Tel Aviv, Israel
www.thehebrewcafe.com
Nihil est peius iis, qui paulum aliquid ultra primas litteras
progressi falsam sibi scientiæ persusionem induerunt.

— Quintilian

Glenn Dean
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Re: Weingreen Grammar, Composition 31.6

Postby Glenn Dean » Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:07 pm

Here's mine:

Spoiler: show
והיה כי יעקב בעבר הנהר וילחם אישׁ עמו כל־הלילה עד הבקר

ויאמר האישׁ אלו שׁלח אתי כי אני מלאך אלהים

ויאמר יעקב אל אשׁלח אתך עד־אשׁר תברך אתי

ויברך המלאך אתו וישׁלח יעקב אתו

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Jonathan Beck
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Re: Weingreen Grammar, Composition 31.6

Postby Jonathan Beck » Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:10 pm

(6) And it came to pass as Jacob was crossing (inf. const.) the river that (waw consec.) a man fought with him all the night until the morning. And the man said unto him, ‘Let me go (Piel of שׁלח), for I am an angel of God’; and Jacob said, ‘I will not let thee go until [עַד־אֲשֶׁר] thou hast blessed me’. And the angel blessed him and Jacob let him go.

Spoiler: show
וַיְהִי כַעֲבֹר יַעֲקֹב אֶת־הַנָּהָר וְיֵעָבֵךְ אִישׁ עִמּוֹ כָּל־הַלַּיְלָה עַד־הַבֹּקֶר וַיּאֹמֶר הָאִישׁ אֵלָיו שַׁלֵּח אֹתִי כִי מַלְאַךְ־הָאֱלֹהִים אֲנִי׃ וַיּאֹמֶר יַעֲקֹב אֲנִי לֹא אֲשַׁלֵּח אֹתְךָ עַד אֲשֶׁר בֵּרַכְתָּנִי וַיְבָרֶךְ אֹתוֹ וַיְשַׁלַּח אֹתוֹ

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Re: Weingreen Grammar, Composition 31.6

Postby Jason Hare » Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:47 pm

Glenn Dean wrote:והיה כי יעקב בעבר הנהר וילחם אישׁ עמו כל־הלילה עד הבקר

וְהָיָה is used for the future. The past is וַיְהִי, and there's no כִּי after it. The time structure is set up by (1) the infinitive construct with or without וַיְהִי and (2) the vav-consecutive.

The infinitive construct needs to be followed by its subject. So, the literal statement would be "and it happened in/as passing Jacob..." That is, וַיְהִי כַּעֲבֹר יַעֲקֹב.

If we use נִלְחַם, I would assume that weapons were involved. That is, they fought as in a battle. That isn't the case here, so the better word would be נֶאֱבַק, which would take its vav-consecutive as וַיֵּאָבֵק. The idea is that they were struggling or wrestling with each other.

Glenn Dean wrote:ויאמר האישׁ אלו שׁלח אתי כי אני מלאך אלהים

It's OK to write אֵלָו (it appears five times in the Bible), but it will give a tendency toward pronunciation errors, since it will be read as elo by accident. It should be written אֵלָיו (with yod).

It would be nice to have vowels included with שלח to show that we understand that it is piel שַׁלֵּחַ or שַׁלַּח and not qal שְׁלַח. At least those verbs should be vocalized.

Glenn Dean wrote:ויאמר יעקב אל אשׁלח אתך עד־אשׁר תברך אתי

Negation of the indicative mood is with לֹא. This isn't a cohortative. It's a simple statement. "I will not let you go." So, it should be לֹא אֲשַׁלַּח, and the pointing is important to distinguish between qal (אֶשְׁלַח) and piel (אֲשַׁלֵּחַ or אֲשַׁלַּח).

Since the blessing is seen as completed when Jacob releases the angel, it should probably be in the perfect. "I will not let you go until you have blessed me." So, it should be בֵּרַ֫כְתָּ. This is also what is seen in the text of Genesis.

Glenn Dean wrote:ויברך המלאך אתו וישׁלח יעקב אתו

The direct object with pronominal suffix needs to intervene between the verb and the subject. It should be specifically in the order ויברך אתו המלאך (sounds natural) rather than ויברך המלאך אתו (sounds really awkward). The same with the second phrase. It's just something about the syntax that it intervenes in these situations.

I hope that I'm not being too critical. When you're at the composition stage, the details are where you find the devil. It's our job to seek out the little bugger and get him out of there! :)
Jason Hare
Tel Aviv, Israel
www.thehebrewcafe.com
Nihil est peius iis, qui paulum aliquid ultra primas litteras
progressi falsam sibi scientiæ persusionem induerunt.

— Quintilian

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Jason Hare
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Re: Weingreen Grammar, Composition 31.6

Postby Jason Hare » Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:56 pm

Jonathan Beck wrote:
וַיְהִי כַעֲבֹר יַעֲקֹב אֶת־הַנָּהָר וְיֵעָבֵךְ אִישׁ עִמּוֹ כָּל־הַלַּיְלָה עַד־הַבֹּקֶר וַיּאֹמֶר הָאִישׁ אֵלָיו שַׁלֵּח אֹתִי כִי מַלְאַךְ־הָאֱלֹהִים אֲנִי׃ וַיּאֹמֶר יַעֲקֹב אֲנִי לֹא אֲשַׁלֵּח אֹתְךָ עַד אֲשֶׁר בֵּרַכְתָּנִי וַיְבָרֶךְ אֹתוֹ וַיְשַׁלַּח אֹתוֹ

I don't recall any instance of the inf. const. after ויהי having no dagesh. That's something you might check.

The word for wrestling is with alef and kof, so it's וַיֵּאָבֵק rather than ayin and kaf.

If you have a guttural after a long vowel, it has furtive patach. So, not shalech but shaleach. It can be read either as שַׁלַּח (with patach alone) or as שַׁלֵּחַ (with furtive patach). The same with the imperfect (either אֲשַׁלֵּחַ or אֲשַׁלַּח).

You're missing subjects on the last two verbs. The first should have "the angel," and the second "Jacob."
Jason Hare
Tel Aviv, Israel
www.thehebrewcafe.com
Nihil est peius iis, qui paulum aliquid ultra primas litteras
progressi falsam sibi scientiæ persusionem induerunt.

— Quintilian

Glenn Dean
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Re: Weingreen Grammar, Composition 31.6

Postby Glenn Dean » Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:00 am

Thanxs for the feedback Jason! (And no I don't think you're being critical, I think you have a "good eye")

If I can break my questions into different posts (so that I don't confuse myself ha-ha), I was just translating 1 Sam 1:12 where they use

וְהָיָה כִי


and their translation is "And it came to pass as " (this sounds like "past" to me atleast)

I sort of understand "waw-cons + perfect" equals "future", while "waw-cons + imperfect" equals "past".

Maybe I'm not really seeing the difference between the two,

Glenn

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Jason Hare
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Re: Weingreen Grammar, Composition 31.6

Postby Jason Hare » Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:51 pm

But וְהָיָה is the future, not the past. The past is וַיְהִי.

וְהָיָה = "and it shall be/happen/come to pass"
וַיְהִי = "and it was/happened/came to pass"
Jason Hare
Tel Aviv, Israel
www.thehebrewcafe.com
Nihil est peius iis, qui paulum aliquid ultra primas litteras
progressi falsam sibi scientiæ persusionem induerunt.

— Quintilian

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Jason Hare
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Re: Weingreen Grammar, Composition 31.6

Postby Jason Hare » Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:29 pm

Here's the new exercise: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=22450
Jason Hare
Tel Aviv, Israel
www.thehebrewcafe.com
Nihil est peius iis, qui paulum aliquid ultra primas litteras
progressi falsam sibi scientiæ persusionem induerunt.

— Quintilian


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