Yes, you did use ספר which I read, then missed. Makes me feel less than intelligent when I make mistakes like that.Jason Hare wrote: ↑Sun Nov 14, 2021 12:12 pmI didn’t use הִגַּ֫דְתִּי. I used סִפַּ֫רְתִּי. How do you feel about that one?kwrandolph wrote: ↑Sat Nov 13, 2021 1:40 pm I wrote אמרתי instead of הגדתי is because I read this as a generalized saying rather than a specific face-to-face report which הגדתי implies. But I don’t see the difference as being significant.
What I noticed about ספר, besides being used for counting, is that it tends to be used to recount and event or a report rather than just making a simple statement. I understand the situation as making a simple statement.
The optative uses both the Qatal and Yiqtol conjugations.Jason Hare wrote: ↑Sun Nov 14, 2021 12:12 pmI’m not sure that this can be justified. Using the yiqtol sets it as a subjunctive/optative mood (“that I should fear”), but this is simply the past time (“because I was afraid”). That would be indicative and have no reason for something other than the qatal. That’s how I see it. Can you find some examples of “because I was afraid” or anything similar in the biblical text that isn’t in the qatal?kwrandolph wrote: ↑Sat Nov 13, 2021 1:40 pm I used the Yiqtol conjugation of ירא first because it sounds more natural, secondly because I see it as anticipating that he should fear death, and anticipation is one of the reasons for using Yiqtol.
I think that the most common use of the Yiqtol in Tanakh is as a secondary indicative, i.e. indicating continuation of a narrative, or additional information to the main theme. In this use, it’s usually but not always preceded by a Waw prefix.
Other uses of the Yiqtol include:
• Indicating subjunctive (second phrase Exodus 5:2, Proverbs 31:10 as well as many other verses) where the translation into English would use “should” or “would” (you mentioned this use).
• Often used in the place of an imperative, especially in negative commands where a Yiqtol verb is preceded by a negative particle לא or אל
• Indicating intention (last phrase Ex 5:2)
• Indicating “tending towards”, “results in” referring to the conclusion of what happens in the present, found in many of the Proverbs, e.g. 13:6, 9, 11, the results of that preceding (last verb Pr 19:9, 21:16). In this use, it can often be translated as a future in English.
• Indicating expectation, that certain things are expected to be done 1S 11:9, Pr 28:5. (includes Wayyiqtol 2K 1:10, 12)
• Indicating possibility, that certain things can be done Proverbs 30:28, that they may Exodus 5:1, “can be” Isaiah 1:18
• Indicating permission, related to possibility, that an action is permitted to be done, Gn 2:16
The events recorded in Genesis don’t use the word “fear”. In this translation, I see the expectation that he should fear, hence the use of the Yiqtol.
I don’t see your use of the Qatal as wrong. I just say that in my understanding of the translation that the Yiqtol seems to fit better.
Karl W. Randolph.