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Weingreen Grammar, Composition 32.5
Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:19 pm
by Jason Hare
Here's the next exercise!
This is so much shorter than the previous exercise.
I told not (to) thee that she is my wife for I was afraid lest thou shouldst (impf.) kill me.
Enjoy!
Re: Weingreen Grammar, Composition 32.5
Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:24 pm
by Jason Hare
- Hidden Hebrew Text
לֹא סִפַּ֫רְתִּי לְךָ כִּי אִשְׁתִּי הִיא כִּי יָרֵ֫אתִי פֶּן־תַּהַרְגֵ֫נִי׃
Re: Weingreen Grammar, Composition 32.5
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2021 2:41 pm
by jordan17182
This is my go at it without references.
My vocabulary is significantly less advanced than Jason's
- Hidden Hebrew Text
אַנִי לֹא אָמַרְתִּי לְךָ אֲשֶׁר הִיא אִשְׁתִי כִּי יָרָאתִּי פֶּן תִּקְטֹל אֹתִי׃
Jordan Furutani
Re: Weingreen Grammar, Composition 32.5
Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2021 12:17 pm
by Jason Hare
jordan17182 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 2:41 pm
This is my go at it without references.
My vocabulary is significantly less advanced than Jason's
- Hidden Hebrew Text
אַנִי לֹא אָמַרְתִּי לְךָ אֲשֶׁר הִיא אִשְׁתִי כִּי יָרָאתִּי פֶּן תִּקְטֹל אֹתִי׃
Jordan Furutani
How’s your Greek? We’re starting a quick study of Athenaze in the coming weeks. You’d be welcome to come and be on the same footing as me. If you ever feel like teaching an introductory Egyptian thing for dummies, I’d join in (if the price is right). You’ve got me beat in several arenas, buddy.
Would you like feedback on your composition?
Re: Weingreen Grammar, Composition 32.5
Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:28 pm
by jordan17182
Jason Hare wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 12:17 pm
How’s your Greek? We’re starting a quick study of Athenaze in the coming weeks. You’d be welcome to come and be on the same footing as me. If you ever feel like teaching an introductory Egyptian thing for dummies, I’d join in (if the price is right). You’ve got me beat in several arenas, buddy.
My Greek basically doesn't exist at this point (I had a about a years worth of NT greek about a decade ago and I haven't kept it up at all) - so I wouldn't be a good fit for your
Athenaze study.
I've thought about teaching a basic Egyptian thing, but I don't have the desire to get students - that is an area where you definitely have me beat.
Re: Weingreen Grammar, Composition 32.5
Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:55 pm
by Jason Hare
jordan17182 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 2:41 pmאַנִי לֹא אָמַרְתִּי לְךָ אֲשֶׁר הִיא אִשְׁתִי כִּי יָרָאתִּי פֶּן תִּקְטֹל אֹתִי׃
Hi, Jordan.
So, there’s the issue of the use of אֲשֶׁר. It’s a relative pronoun generally and doesn’t normally function to embed a non-linked independent clause. I mean by “non-linked” that there is no shared element between the higher and lower clauses. For example, “I spoke with the the woman” and “The woman told you about the show” share the element of “the woman.” They can be combined with the relative pronoun as “I saw the woman who told you about the show.” There is no connection like this in this sentence, and the natural subordinator in Hebrew is simply כִּי. So, you can say רָאִ֫יתִי כִּי... “I saw that...,” שָׁמַ֫עְתִּי כִּי... “I heard that...,” and אָמַ֫רְתִּי כִּי... “I said that....” I imagine that you avoided this because כִּי was used just immediately after, and you wanted to avoid doubling up on that word—but it’s the right thing to say.
Of course, in rabbinic and modern Hebrew שֶׁ־ is used after these sense words; so, that might be causing some confusion. It isn’t really the way it’s used in the biblical language.
There’s no need for אֲנִי to be present unless it’s being emphasized (“and as for me, I did not tell you…”).
אִשְׁתִּי should just have a dagesh in the tav, since it’s a begedkefet letter following a silent sheva.
In the qal, the verb יָרֵא has a tsere regularly. Rather than yārā́ʾṯî (like בָּרָ֫אתִי bārā́ʾṯî), we have יָרֵ֫אתִי yārḗʾṯî, more like שָׂנֵ֫אתִי śānḗʾṯî “I hate.”
The verb קָטַל is used only three times in the Bible! It’s bold to use it instead of the regular הָרַג, but it’s a valid choice.
Re: Weingreen Grammar, Composition 32.5
Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2021 3:17 pm
by jordan17182
That is a good point about the use of אשר. it felt a little awkward to me but I was led astray by the use of ש- in Rabbinic Hebrew (Although I now recall going over the change in Fernandez) and I didn't like using כי twice in such close proximity.
Thanks for the clarifications on the vowels. I was always weak in that area so that is something which is really beneficial in composing.
Of course I used קטל just because it springs quickly to mind, הרג is the better choice. Incidentally, that is another area of language learning which composing helps - it is one thing to recognize a word when you read it, entirely another to produce it.
Re: Weingreen Grammar, Composition 32.5
Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2021 3:26 pm
by Jason Hare
jordan17182 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 3:17 pm
it is one thing to recognize a word when you read it, entirely another to produce it.
That’s precisely the benefit of doing this!
Re: Weingreen Grammar, Composition 32.5
Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 1:40 pm
by kwrandolph
Jason Hare wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:19 pm
Here's the next exercise!
This is so much shorter than the previous exercise.
I told not (to) thee that she is my wife for I was afraid lest thou shouldst (impf.) kill me.
Enjoy!
לא אמרתי לך כי אשתי היא כי אירא פן תהרגני
The reasons for my differences from your translation:
I wrote אמרתי instead of הגדתי is because I read this as a generalized saying rather than a specific face-to-face report which הגדתי implies. But I don’t see the difference as being significant.
I used the Yiqtol conjugation of ירא first because it sounds more natural, secondly because I see it as anticipating that he should fear death, and anticipation is one of the reasons for using Yiqtol.
But like I previously wrote, I think these are minor differences.
Karl W. Randolph.
Re: Weingreen Grammar, Composition 32.5
Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2021 12:12 pm
by Jason Hare
kwrandolph wrote: ↑Sat Nov 13, 2021 1:40 pm
I wrote אמרתי instead of הגדתי is because I read this as a generalized saying rather than a specific face-to-face report which הגדתי implies. But I don’t see the difference as being significant.
I didn’t use הִגַּ֫דְתִּי. I used סִפַּ֫רְתִּי. How do you feel about that one?
kwrandolph wrote: ↑Sat Nov 13, 2021 1:40 pm
I used the Yiqtol conjugation of ירא first because it sounds more natural, secondly because I see it as anticipating that he should fear death, and anticipation is one of the reasons for using Yiqtol.
I’m not sure that this can be justified. Using the yiqtol sets it as a subjunctive/optative mood (“that I should fear”), but this is simply the past time (“because I was afraid”). That would be indicative and have no reason for something other than the qatal. That’s how I see it. Can you find some examples of “because I was afraid” or anything similar in the biblical text that isn’t in the qatal?