B-Hebrew: The Biblical Hebrew Forum

Jason Hare wrote: ↑Sun Nov 14, 2021 12:12 pm

kwrandolph wrote: ↑Sat Nov 13, 2021 1:40 pm I wrote אמרתי instead of הגדתי is because I read this as a generalized saying rather than a specific face-to-face report which הגדתי implies. But I don’t see the difference as being significant.

I didn’t use הִגַּ֫דְתִּי. I used סִפַּ֫רְתִּי. How do you feel about that one?

Yes, you did use ספר which I read, then missed. Makes me feel less than intelligent when I make mistakes like that.

What I noticed about ספר, besides being used for counting, is that it tends to be used to recount and event or a report rather than just making a simple statement. I understand the situation as making a simple statement.

Jason Hare wrote: ↑Sun Nov 14, 2021 12:12 pm

kwrandolph wrote: ↑Sat Nov 13, 2021 1:40 pm I used the Yiqtol conjugation of ירא first because it sounds more natural, secondly because I see it as anticipating that he should fear death, and anticipation is one of the reasons for using Yiqtol.

I’m not sure that this can be justified. Using the yiqtol sets it as a subjunctive/optative mood (“that I should fear”), but this is simply the past time (“because I was afraid”). That would be indicative and have no reason for something other than the qatal. That’s how I see it. Can you find some examples of “because I was afraid” or anything similar in the biblical text that isn’t in the qatal?

The optative uses both the Qatal and Yiqtol conjugations.

I think that the most common use of the Yiqtol in Tanakh is as a secondary indicative, i.e. indicating continuation of a narrative, or additional information to the main theme. In this use, it’s usually but not always preceded by a Waw prefix.

Other uses of the Yiqtol include:
• Indicating subjunctive (second phrase Exodus 5:2, Proverbs 31:10 as well as many other verses) where the translation into English would use “should” or “would” (you mentioned this use).
• Often used in the place of an imperative, especially in negative commands where a Yiqtol verb is preceded by a negative particle לא or אל
• Indicating intention (last phrase Ex 5:2)
• Indicating “tending towards”, “results in” referring to the conclusion of what happens in the present, found in many of the Proverbs, e.g. 13:6, 9, 11, the results of that preceding (last verb Pr 19:9, 21:16). In this use, it can often be translated as a future in English.
• Indicating expectation, that certain things are expected to be done 1S 11:9, Pr 28:5. (includes Wayyiqtol 2K 1:10, 12)
• Indicating possibility, that certain things can be done Proverbs 30:28, that they may Exodus 5:1, “can be” Isaiah 1:18
• Indicating permission, related to possibility, that an action is permitted to be done, Gn 2:16

The events recorded in Genesis don’t use the word “fear”. In this translation, I see the expectation that he should fear, hence the use of the Yiqtol.

I don’t see your use of the Qatal as wrong. I just say that in my understanding of the translation that the Yiqtol seems to fit better.

Karl W. Randolph.