Pirkei Avot - For Reading and Discussion

[Jason Hare]

מִשְּׁיָרֵי - I thought this was from שַׂר (leader), but with the Yod isn't that "to sing". So how is the translation "last of the great assembly"????

In biblical Hebrew, it is שְׁאָר rather than שְׁיָר. This is a vocab distinction. It means something like “the remnants (last ones) of the Great Assembly.”

[Glenn Dean]

did the aleph drop?

[Jason Hare]

did the aleph drop?

Alef out, yod in.

[Glenn Dean]

I was wondering "who is 'Simon the Righteous'?". I read this short article - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simeon_the_Just

[Ben Putnam]

One difference in grammar is הוא היה אומר for “he used to say.”

[Jason Hare]

One difference in grammar is הוא היה אומר for “he used to say.”

Indeed. It’s not just the word אומר, but any participle with היה (in its various forms) comes to have a continuous or habitual aspect. For example, הוא היה מתפלל כל יום בבית המקדש “He used to pray every day in the temple.”

[talmid56]

Jason, thanks for starting this thread and helping keep it going. I've read Pikei Avot in English (some years back), but not the Hebrew yet. I hope to get to it one of these days.

I've followed the comments with great interest, just haven't had time to join in.

[Jason Hare]

אַנְטִיגְנוֹס אִישׁ סוֹכוֹ קִבֵּל מִשִּׁמְעוֹן הַצַּדִּיק
הוּא הָיָה אוֹמֵר:
  אַל תִּהְיוּ כַּעֲבָדִים הַמְשַׁמְּשִׁין אֶת הָרַב עַל מְנָת לְקַבֵּל פְּרָס
  אֶלָּא הֱווּ כַּעֲבָדִים הַמְשַׁמְּשִׁין אֶת הָרַב עַל מְנָת שֶׁלֹּא לְקַבֵּל פְּרָס
  וִיהִי מוֹרָא שָׁמַ֫יִם עֲלֵיכֶם

The same text unpointed and unbroken is:

אנטיגנוס איש סוכו קיבל משמעון הצדיק הוא היה אומר אל תהיו כעבדים המשמשין את הרב על מנת לקבל פרס אלא הוו כעבדים המשמשין את הרב על מנת שלא לקבל פרס ויהי מורא שמיים עליכם

Again, you may choose to read through the verse on sefaria.org, which has an English translation.

סוֹכוֹ (also סוֹכֹה) is the name of a couple of ancient Israelite cities. See the Wikipedia entry on Sokho for more information.

Notice that the object of the verb קִבֵּל is missing but should be understood as תּוֹרָה.

The participle מְשַׁמְּשִׁין (piel of the root שׁמ״שׁ) means “serving.” This root is expressed in the hitpael (הִשְׁתַּמֵּשׁ) to mean “use,” and it governs its object with the preposition בְּ־. When I make use of a pen, the pen is serving my needs. I am being served by a pen (אֲנִי מִשְׁתַּמֵּשׁ בְּעֵט).

The word רַב means “great,” and it came to refer to a great teacher, a rabbi. In Aramaic, רַב means “master” (cognate of Arabic رَبٌّ rabbun, as in the expression رَبُّ ٱلْعَـٰلَمِينَ rábbu-lʿālamī́n “master of the worlds”). This is the meaning of the word here. Slaves serve their masters. It shouldn’t, I think, be read to mean that rabbis have slaves.

The phrase עַל־מְנָת is used with an infinitive to mean “in order to.” פְּרָס is a prize or reward. אֶלָּא is a strong disjunctive, meaning “but rather,” similar to Greek ἀλλά (as opposed to δέ). מוֹרָא “fear” comes from יָרֵא “afraid,” which is common enough in the Hebrew Bible.

Any comments or questions?

[Glenn Dean]

On the word הַמְשַׁמְּשִׁין, why does it end in a nun? I would of expected מִשְׁתַּמְּשִׁים (i.e. ending in a mem)

Glenn

[Glenn Dean]

עַל־מְנָת that's not the verb "to count", but the noun מָנָה in construct?