translation of Daniel 9:26

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Danielkim
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Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:27 pm

translation of Daniel 9:26

Postby Danielkim » Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:08 am

וְאַחֲרֵ֤י הַשָּׁבֻעִים֙ שִׁשִּׁ֣ים וּשְׁנַ֔יִם יִכָּרֵ֥ת מָשִׁ֖יחַ וְאֵ֣ין ל֑וֹ וְהָעִ֨יר וְהַקֹּ֜דֶשׁ יַ֠שְׁחִית עַ֣ם נָגִ֤יד הַבָּא֙ וְקִצּ֣וֹ בַשֶּׁ֔טֶף וְעַד֙ קֵ֣ץ מִלְחָמָ֔ה נֶחֱרֶ֖צֶת שֹׁמֵמֽוֹת׃ ( Daniel 9:26).

I believe this verse is linked to Daniel 8:24 " (Little Horn) will destroy the holy people".

"the Prince" appear in Daniel 9:25. and it is obvious it refers to Jesus.

and it appears in verse 26 again. and it also refers to Jesus too.

I think both "yik·kā·rêṯ"(cut off) and " yaš·ḥîṯ" ( destroy) are Niphal (passive) tense.

here is my translation.

"after 62 weeks Messiah shall be cut off but not shall be to city and sanctuary. the people of prince shall be destroyed at the flood like coming end. which will be until the end of the determined desolating war." ==> this is my understanding.

please tell me if my interpretation has any problem in grammar or in context.

Daniel Kim.

Bible Lover

Virginia in U.S.A

kwrandolph
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Re: translation of Daniel 9:26

Postby kwrandolph » Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:02 pm

Dear Daniel Kim:

You need to be careful as to how you deal with prophesy, and neither take sections of prophesy out of context, nor collapse contexts.

Daniel 9:24–27 is a completely different prophesy than Daniel 8. The prophesy in Daniel 8 was about world empires, Daniel 9:24–27 specifically about Jerusalem as a Jewish city itself. Daniel 8 sweeps though to the end of history, Daniel 9:24–27 refers only to a 490 year period, from the rebuilding of Jerusalem as a city, to the end of the Jewish revolt of 66 AD. Daniel 8 has no dates specified, Daniel 9:24–27 has two subdates of 49 years to the coming of the anointed leader, and the death of one merely known as the Anointed between 434 and 441 years after the rebuilding of Jerusalem, the exact year not given.

The “anointed leader” and the “Anointed” cannot be the same person, unless you want to claim that the “Anointed” was between 385 to 391 years old when killed.

I have heard so much foolishness connected with this prophesy, foolishness that doesn’t survive a careful reading of the Hebrew text.

Seventy sevens = 490 years, don’t break up that period.

The “anointed leader” came 49 years after the command to rebuild Jerusalem. The only one I know of that fits that description is Alexander the Great.

The 62 sevens starts at the same time as the seven sevens until the “anointed leader”, it doesn’t come afterwards, and it starts at the same time as the 490 years. Why treat that time period differently than the other two (49 and 490)?

The last verse and a half accurately describe the Jewish revolt of 66 AD—the “people of the coming leader” did the destruction. Both the general who started the suppression of the Jewish revolt, and the general who completed it, became emperor of Rome, fulfilling the “coming leader”. It took seven years for the Roman people to impose their treaty upon many, the Hebrew word indicates overpowering. Half way though that war of overpowering, sacrifices were ended, as the temple was destroyed. That 490 year prophesy is finished, done with.

In closing, carefully reread the passage in Hebrew.

Don’t add to prophesy. Where prophesy is silent, we too should be silent, Revelations 22:18. There are many things for which we have not been given dates, therefore we should not put our own dates to those events that have not yet happened.

Karl W. Randolph.

Danielkim
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:27 pm

Re: translation of Daniel 9:26

Postby Danielkim » Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:54 am

Daniel 9:23 says Gabriel came to Daniel to help him to understand chapter 8.

I believe chapter 9 is linked to chapter 8.

kwrandolph
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Re: translation of Daniel 9:26

Postby kwrandolph » Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:23 am

Danielkim wrote:Daniel 9:23 says Gabriel came to Daniel to help him to understand chapter 8.

I believe chapter 9 is linked to chapter 8.


Read the text. The two prophecies were given at different times, under different kings. The only connections are that they were given to Daniel with the help of Gabriel.

Just my 2¢.

Karl W. Randolph.

Danielkim
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Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:27 pm

Re: translation of Daniel 9:26

Postby Danielkim » Sat Jul 15, 2017 3:44 pm

Read daniel 9:23 in hebrew text.( 8:26)

Bammareh = That prophecy of 2300 evenings and mornings.

kwrandolph
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Re: translation of Daniel 9:26

Postby kwrandolph » Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:01 am

Danielkim wrote:Read daniel 9:23 in hebrew text.( 8:26)

Bammareh = That prophecy of 2300 evenings and mornings.


The prophesy of 2300 evenings and mornings has absolutely nothing to do with Daniel 9:23, and shouldn’t even be mentioned in connection with it.

What you are doing is a well-known exegetical fallacy that goes by the name of collapsing contexts. The definition of collapsing contexts is taking statements out of context, then putting them together into a new context in a way that’s not found in the original text. By stringing out of context statements together, you can make it seem that the speaker is crazy, or even make it seem that the person said something opposite of what he actually meant. This is logical craziness.

Strictly speaking, this isn’t a b-hebrew question, rather one that fits any text.

Sorry, this is more than 2¢

Karl W. Randolph.

Danielkim
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Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:27 pm

Re: translation of Daniel 9:26

Postby Danielkim » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:07 pm

Gabriel came back to Daniel( 9:23) because Daniel could not understand 2300 evenings and mornings prophecy. ( 8:27).

kwrandolph
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Re: translation of Daniel 9:26

Postby kwrandolph » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:20 pm

Danielkim wrote:Gabriel came back to Daniel( 9:23) because Daniel could not understand 2300 evenings and mornings prophecy. ( 8:27).


Nope, that’s not what the text says. Don’t add to the text.

Further, the 2300 evenings and mornings have no place in the Daniel 9:24–27 prophecy.

Karl W. Randolph.

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Kirk Lowery
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Re: translation of Daniel 9:26

Postby Kirk Lowery » Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:42 am

Gentlemen,

We've wandered from the original question of translation. Please bring the discussion back to Hebrew language concerns about the text.

Thanks!
Kirk E. Lowery, PhD
B-Hebrew Site Administrator & Co-moderator
blog: https://blogs.emdros.org/eh
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Jemoh66
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Re: translation of Daniel 9:26

Postby Jemoh66 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:35 pm

Bring this post back to linguistics, some observation upon reading the passage:

1 בִּשְׁנַ֣ת אַחַ֗ת לְדָרְיָ֛וֶשׁ בֶּן־ אֲחַשְׁוֵרֹ֖ושׁ מִזֶּ֣רַע מָדָ֑י אֲשֶׁ֣ר הָמְלַ֔ךְ עַ֖ל מַלְכ֥וּת כַּשְׂדִּֽים׃ 2 בִּשְׁנַ֤ת אַחַת֙ לְמָלְכֹ֔ו אֲנִי֙ דָּֽנִיֵּ֔אל בִּינֹ֖תִי בַּסְּפָרִ֑ים מִסְפַּ֣ר הַשָּׁנִ֗ים אֲשֶׁ֨ר הָיָ֤ה דְבַר־ יְהוָה֙ אֶל־ יִרְמִיָ֣ה הַנָּבִ֔יא לְמַלֹּ֛אות לְחָרְבֹ֥ות יְרוּשָׁלִַ֖ם שִׁבְעִ֥ים שָׁנָֽה׃


Preliminary phonological and syntactic observations on verse 1:
1. בִּשְׁנַ֣ת — /bi/ long /i/, open syllable; /šnɑt/, consonant cluster /šn/ closed syllable.
2. penultimate accent in /dɑryɑ̄'vɛš/ but ultimate in /ɐxɑšveroš'/
3. מִזֶּ֣רַע — gemination of the zayin due to assimilation of the /n/ of /min/
4. אֲשֶׁ֣ר הָמְלַ֔ךְ עַ֖ל מַלְכ֥וּת כַּשְׂדִּֽים — relative clause with hophal verb.
Jonathan E Mohler
Studying for a MA in Intercultural Studies
Baptist Bible Theological Seminary


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