Genesis 18:3 "from upon"
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Genesis 18:3 "from upon"
Abraham said to G-d not to go away "from upon Your servant" in Genesis 18:3. Is "from upon" unusual in this quote? Do people go "from upon " other people or does it mean that He could have been seeing G-d in a vision besides seeing the angels?
Kenneth Greifer
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Re: Genesis 18:3 "from upon"
I just realized that Exodus 18:13 says the people "stood on" Moses, so I guess "on" can mean next to also, so "from upon" מעל can mean "from next to" in Genesis 18:3.
Kenneth Greifer
Re: Genesis 18:3 "from upon"
Gen 18:3 - And said my Lord if perhaps they find favour in thy sight, thou will not pass away thy child.
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Re: Genesis 18:3 "from upon"
Hi Kenneth - I'm guessing you're referring to the preposition על in these two verses?
Gen 18:3:
וַיֹּאמַ֑ר אֲדֹנָ֗י אִם־נָ֨א מָצָ֤אתִי חֵן֙ בְּעֵינֶ֔יךָ אַל־נָ֥א תַעֲבֹ֖ר מֵעַ֥ל עַבְדֶּֽךָ
Exod 18:13:
וַיְהִי֙ מִֽמָּחֳרָ֔ת וַיֵּ֥שֶׁב מֹשֶׁ֖ה לִשְׁפֹּ֣ט אֶת־הָעָ֑ם וַיַּעֲמֹ֤ד הָעָם֙ עַל־מֹשֶׁ֔ה מִן־הַבֹּ֖קֶר עַד־הָעָֽרֶב
Whilst על certainly means 'on' or 'upon', it has such a wide variety of uses that context will determine the meaning of the preposition, which is not to dissimilar to the Greek επι, which whilst meaning an ultra-literal 'upon' has more than enough different uses in context for that not to be the understanding.
For the Genesis verse, I wouldn't disassociate it from the other preposition -מ and have them used together to just mean 'by'; for the Exodus verse, understanding it as meaning 'before' would be more than fine.
Gen 18:3:
וַיֹּאמַ֑ר אֲדֹנָ֗י אִם־נָ֨א מָצָ֤אתִי חֵן֙ בְּעֵינֶ֔יךָ אַל־נָ֥א תַעֲבֹ֖ר מֵעַ֥ל עַבְדֶּֽךָ
Exod 18:13:
וַיְהִי֙ מִֽמָּחֳרָ֔ת וַיֵּ֥שֶׁב מֹשֶׁ֖ה לִשְׁפֹּ֣ט אֶת־הָעָ֑ם וַיַּעֲמֹ֤ד הָעָם֙ עַל־מֹשֶׁ֔ה מִן־הַבֹּ֖קֶר עַד־הָעָֽרֶב
Whilst על certainly means 'on' or 'upon', it has such a wide variety of uses that context will determine the meaning of the preposition, which is not to dissimilar to the Greek επι, which whilst meaning an ultra-literal 'upon' has more than enough different uses in context for that not to be the understanding.
For the Genesis verse, I wouldn't disassociate it from the other preposition -מ and have them used together to just mean 'by'; for the Exodus verse, understanding it as meaning 'before' would be more than fine.
Ste Walch
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Re: Genesis 18:3 "from upon"
על has the meaning of being a burden on.
In Gen 18:3, Abraham tells the Lord that Abraham wants to give him hospitality, which is a burden Abraham wants to bear.
In Exo 18:13 The people stood as a burden upon Moses from morning until evening.
In Gen 18:3, Abraham tells the Lord that Abraham wants to give him hospitality, which is a burden Abraham wants to bear.
In Exo 18:13 The people stood as a burden upon Moses from morning until evening.
Sincerely yours,
Steve Miller
Detroit
http://www.voiceInWilderness.info
Honesty is the best policy. - George Washington (1732-99)
Steve Miller
Detroit
http://www.voiceInWilderness.info
Honesty is the best policy. - George Washington (1732-99)
- SteveMiller
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Re: Genesis 18:3 "from upon"
Hi David, welcome to B-Hebrew.
You are supposed to sign your posts with your first and last names, which you can do easily by putting them in your signature.
How did you arrive at that conclusion? Did you look at a large number of the occurrences of מעל?
You are supposed to sign your posts with your first and last names, which you can do easily by putting them in your signature.
David Colo wrote: This is a fairly common mistake made by some translators... They see מן (from) prefixed to על (upon) and assume that the semantic nuance of מעל is a combination of its parts (from upon). In reality, however, מעל is a single word with its own semantic function--the parts that came together to form it do not operate independently or even jointly.
How did you arrive at that conclusion? Did you look at a large number of the occurrences of מעל?
Sincerely yours,
Steve Miller
Detroit
http://www.voiceInWilderness.info
Honesty is the best policy. - George Washington (1732-99)
Steve Miller
Detroit
http://www.voiceInWilderness.info
Honesty is the best policy. - George Washington (1732-99)