Jackal or dragon?

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Kenneth Greifer
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Jackal or dragon?

Post by Kenneth Greifer »

In Isaiah 34:13 the word תנים (a plural word) means "jackals" or "dragons" or what?
The word in Genesis 1:21 is spelled תנין for some reason. I think this is a singular word, although in Genesis 1:21, it is in the plural form.
Are these two different words? Does it mean "jackals"? I am not sure if I have asked this before, so I am sorry if this is a repeat.
Kenneth Greifer
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SteveMiller
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Re: Jackal or dragon?

Post by SteveMiller »

Hi Kenneth,
It looks to me like they are 2 different words where תנים or ‎ תַנּ֥וֹת means jackals, and תנין means a large reptile.

Isa 13:22 & Micah 1:8 תנים could not be reptiles because they cry to one another and wail. Also Jerem 14:6 תנים does not sound like it could be a reptile.

A problem is Lam 4:3 where the ketiv says תנין and the qere says תנים. A reptile does not fit here because it gives its breast to its young. The Masoretes therefore corrected it to תנים, jackals. LXX translated it as "serpents". DSS does not preserve the verse.

Another problem is תנים in Ezek 29:3 & 32:2. The meaning there cannot be jackals because it lives in the rivers and seas. DSS does not preserve these verses either. Klein says that תנים is an alternate spelling of the singular תנין. These are the only instances where תנים is singular.
Sincerely yours,
Steve Miller
Detroit
http://www.voiceInWilderness.info
Honesty is the best policy. - George Washington (1732-99)
kwrandolph
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Re: Jackal or dragon?

Post by kwrandolph »

Kenneth Greifer wrote:In Isaiah 34:13 the word תנים (a plural word) means "jackals" or "dragons" or what?
The word in Genesis 1:21 is spelled תנין for some reason. I think this is a singular word, although in Genesis 1:21, it is in the plural form.
Are these two different words? Does it mean "jackals"? I am not sure if I have asked this before, so I am sorry if this is a repeat.
As a lexicographer, one problem I’ve run into are listings of animals that no longer are found. What has happened is that medieval and later interpreters have substituted animals known at their times. As for those animals, very little is known about them. For example, ancient drawings preserved in South America show apatasaurus type animals with teats and suckling their young, just like the animal in Lamentations 4:3. How many other dinosaurs did that? Another animal was תנשמת which is listed both as a flying and creeping creature Leviticus 11:18, 30, Deuteronomy 14:16, so what was it?

The medieval English word for “dinosaur” was “dragon”. Some descriptions of medieval “dragons” have enough detail that we can recognize certain varieties of dinosaurs as still living in England at that time.

So what were those animals?

Karl W. Randolph.
Isaac Fried
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Re: Jackal or dragon?

Post by Isaac Fried »

The תַּ TA, of תַּנִּין is certainly the personal pronoun אתה, 'it is'. The rest נִין ‫= נ-היא-ן‬ is apparently the נִין of job 18:19
‎לֹא נִין לוֹ וְלֹא נֶכֶד בְּעַמּוֹ וְאֵין שָׂרִיד בִּמְגוּרָיו
NIV: "He has no offspring or descendants among his people, no survivor where once he lived."

Onkelos translates in Lev. 11:17 the bird name הַשָּלָךְ as וְשָלֵי נוּנָא, namely, the diver, the catcher of fish, a cormorant.

Isaac Fried, Boston University
Isaac Fried
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Re: Jackal or dragon?

Post by Isaac Fried »

This is the same תַּ TA, as in תַּלְמִיד ‫=‬ אתה‫-‬למ‫-‬היא‫-‬ד, 'scholar', of the root למד as in 1Chronicles 25:8
‎וַיַּפִּילוּ גּוֹרָלוֹת מִשְׁמֶרֶת לְעֻמַּת כַּקָּטֹן כַּגָּדוֹל מֵבִין עִם תַּלְמִיד
KJV: " And they cast lots, ward against ward, as well the small as the great, the teacher as the scholar."

Isaac Fried, Boston University
Saboi

Re: Jackal or dragon?

Post by Saboi »

The word 'Jackal' is a cognate of 'שׁוּעָל (Sng 2:15), the Ayin in שׁוּעָל is glutted, thus pronounced more
like Shugal (rather then shü·äl), this is proven in 1Sa 13:17, שׁוּעָל is rendered Σωγαλ "shaghāl" in the Septuagint
and similar too the Persian شغال (šağâl) , the Sanskrit, सृगाल (sṛgālá) and French Chacal.
Saboi

Re: Jackal or dragon?

Post by Saboi »

תנים
(a) - πτηνόν 'flying, winged'
(b) - κτῆνόν 'flocks & Herds

Since Hebrew tends to omit the initial letters of words beginning with G and P, thus תנים encompasses the definition of
both πτηνόν & κτῆνόν .
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tian777
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Re: Jackal or dragon?

Post by tian777 »

I agree with Karl when he says, "What has happened is that medieval and later interpreters have substituted animals known at their times. As for those animals, very little is known about them."

From my study of the birds mentioned in the Bible, I have on eagles for example concluded, "The Hebrew word nesher is often translated as “eagle”, but this is as much a generic word as the English. As many of the references are used figuratively, it does not give many clues as to the specific species, and could include any large raptor." (Hattingh, p. 104).

A more detailed example from the same chapter in this thread would be, "The Hebrew words qa’ath and qippod in Is 34:11 are problematic. In Zeph 2:14 the first two names qa’ath and qippod, are used in the same sequence as here. The only other occurrence of qippod is in Is 14:21. The only other occurrence of the corresponding root is in Is 38:12, were it is translated as: “to roll up”, as a weaver would his fabric. This might have prompted earlier translators to think in terms of the Hedgehog (Erinaceous auristus) or a Porcupine (Hystricidae). In Zeph 2:14 the creatures are said to “spend the night on the capitals of pillars”, excluding the Hedgehog in my mind. Douglas mentions that scholars have suggested the Bittern (Botaurus stellaris), which is common in the Middle East, as well as a Night Heron (Nycticorax nycticorax) and a Great Bustard (Otis tarda), all known for their strange booming calls at night, attributing to the idea of desolation. Koehier & Baumgartner list two further possibilities namely the Little Owl (Athene noctua lilith) for the former, and the Short-eared Owl (Asio flammeus), for the latter. Both species are common in the Middle East, and known to inhabit solitary places." (Hattingh, p.182).

Hattingh,Tian. Birds and Bibles in History (2012). London Press.
Tian Hattingh
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