Thorns and Bushes

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Saboi

Thorns and Bushes

Post by Saboi »

So it is common in Biblical poetry to create an anecdote when introducing
a name, so in Genesis 25:26, Jacob took hold on Esau's heel, עקב
therefore he was called יעקב.

So with the introductory of Esau in Genesis 25:25, the word he was named
for is absent in the Masoretic, they are three words here and none of them
resemble the result, עשו.

אדמוני - Edom
שער - Seir
אדרת - Addereth

The phrase אדרת שער is δορὰ δασύς in the Septuagint, it is because
of Dasus he was therefore called 'Esau', the word δασύς so happen to be
the Hebrew word דשא (δασέα) 'thick with leaves, copse, thicket, Bush'
another cognate is עשב hence עשו.

עשה is a different word and it's cognate is Show τεύχω 'make ready, build, make'

The word 'Bush' in Exodus 3:3 is סנה and this is ἄκανθα (Akantha) meaning
thorn or prickly bush.

Deuteronomy 33:16
That dwelt in the bush(סנה): let the blessing come upon the head of Joseph

That particular bush was used to make a wreath, that narrows it down
to the Laurus nobilis known as δάφναι or צפנת that roots the
name Stephen and the title given too Joseph, Zaphnath-paaneah or δαφνηφάγος

John 19:2 - The soldiers platted a crown of thorns (סנה) and put it on his head
Saboi

Re: Thorns and Bushes

Post by Saboi »

An interesting word play is used in Jeremiah.

Jeremiah 2:16 - The children of Tahapanes have broken the crown

תחפנס comes from Δάφνῃσι (Daphnae), a settlement of Ionic merchants that settled during the reign of Psamtik I alongside Elephantine.

Laurel, the type of crowns worn by Ionics, are made from bay trees that are called δάφνη (Daphne).

Does Elephantine appear in the Bible?

The word is ἐλέφαντος, longer form of ἐλέφας or אלופ which
means 'Animal fodder' also roots χιλός, אכל, κλάσμα, λάγανα and
also לחם.

אלפן < אלפם < אלחם < לחם > ἐλέφαντος > Elephantine

Gen 41:56-7 (founding of Elephantine) (בית לחם)
- Joseph opened up store houses in Egypt
Isaac Fried
Posts: 1783
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:32 pm

Re: Thorns and Bushes

Post by Isaac Fried »

What makes you think that the סנה SNEH of Ex. 3:3 is a bush? Is it not related סִינָי SINAY the mountain?
Consider 1Sam. 14:4
‎וּבֵין הַמַּעְבְּרוֹת אֲשֶׁר בִּקֵּשׁ יוֹנָתָן לַעֲבֹר עַל מַצַּב פְּלִשְׁתִּים שֵׁן הַסֶּלַע מֵהָעֵבֶר מִזֶּה וְשֵׁן הַסֶּלַע מֵהָעֵבֶר מִזֶּה וְשֵׁם הָאֶחָד בּוֹצֵץ וְשֵׁם הָאֶחָד סֶנֶּה

Isaac Fried, Boston University
Saboi

Re: Thorns and Bushes

Post by Saboi »

I guess the 'Bush' reading depends on the Septuagint.

ה סנה - ὁ βάτος

βάτος 'Bramble, blackberry, 'raspberry'
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/mor ... ek#lexicon

Bramble, blackberry and raspberry plants have nettles and סנה
is defined in Lexicon, 'From an unused root meaning to prick' similar
too ἄκανθα ( Akantha) 'thorn or prickle' .

-No Bush theory-

סיני appears in Gen 10:7 as a location in the Levant, i believe to be another reading of קיני that appear in Gen 15:19 and סיני/קיני are dialectic forms of φοίνικος (Phoenicia) thus the word ה סנה is ὁ Φοῖνιξ (The Phoenix).

The authors of the Hebrew scripture are well aware of the Phoenix and its association
with the Phoenicians.

Ezekiel 17:3
And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; A great eagle with great wings, long winged, full of feathers,which had divers colours and came unto Lebanon.

Herodotus mistakenly describes the Phoenix in Arabia and Egypt.
Herodotus 2:73
There is another sacred bird, too, whose name is phoenix. I myself have never seen it, only pictures of it; for the bird seldom comes into Egypt: once in five hundred years, as the people of Heliopolis say. [2] It is said that the phoenix comes when his father dies. If the picture truly shows his size and appearance, his plumage is partly golden and partly red. He is most like an eagle in shape and size. [3] What they say this bird manages to do is incredible to me. Flying from Arabia to the temple of the sun, they say, he conveys his father encased in myrrh and buries him at the temple of the Sun. [4] This is how he conveys him: he first molds an egg of myrrh as heavy as he can carry, then tries lifting it, and when he has tried it, he then hollows out the egg and puts his father into it, and plasters over with more myrrh the hollow of the egg into which he has put his father, which is the same in weight with his father lying in it, and he conveys him encased to the temple of the Sun in Egypt. This is what they say this bird does.
Did Moses encounter the burning-phoenix?
Saboi

Re: Thorns and Bushes

Post by Saboi »

שן־הסלע - Sharp Rock
ἀκρωτήριον πέτρα - Topmost rock

One of the rocks is בוצץ (Bozez) and the other סנה (Ceneh) and these pair with the Greeks synonyms i previously mentioned, βάτος (Bátos) and ἄκανθα (ákantha).

The Lexicon can't define 'בוצץ' as a synonym of 'סנה' in the context of 1 Samuel 14:4.

מעבר is read as διαβάσεως which roots two place names in the Bible
Bashan (διαβάσεων)
Yabesh (διαβάσεως )

I do find the place-names and personal names in the story of Samuel to be unusual and they don't
seem to fit the Levant, the word 'Philistine' does not appear in the Septuagint, but instead
reads 'ἀλλόφυλοι' (of another tribe) and from φυλοι we get Gaul and Celt, whom the Phoenicians would have encountered and battled prior to founding Carthage and other colonies in Spain and thus the rocks are the pillars of Hercules that are mentioned in Judges 16:29.

Judges 16:30 - Samson said, Let me die with the Gauls
Saboi

Re: Thorns and Bushes

Post by Saboi »

I found some unusual thorny verses.

2 Kings 14:9
The thistle that was in Lebanon ... trode down the thistle.

-Thistle-
ה חוח
ὁ ακαν

ἄκαν means 'point' (סנה)

Hosea 10:8
The thorn and the thistle shall come up on their altars; and they shall say to the mountains, Cover us; and to the hills

the word 'thistle' is a different word, דרדר translates τρίβολοι and its lexicon
as τρίβολος φυλλάκανθος 'Prickly leaves' (thorny trefoil, Fagonia cretica)
and τρίβολος περικαρπιάκανθος (Having thorns on the fruit) .

דרדר - στρουθός ,στρούθειον (cognate)
- Quinch, Perishin

קוץ
ἔσχατος , ἄκρος, ἄκανθα, ἀνθίζω
ἀνθίζω > θίζω >שוש , קוץ ,קיץ, Ziz, Σικανοί

Ziz
the Phoenician name for Palermo, the capital of Sicily
A river in Morocco cutting through the Atlas Mountains (ruled by Phoenicians)
Ziz - שוש, שושנת , Σικανοί, אשכנז

Σικανοί (Sicani ) is a name of ancient Sicily, known in the Bible
as Ashkenaz (אשכנז), the son of Gomer, namesake for Himera (Ἱμέρα)
in Sicily (ruled by the Phoenicians).
Isaac Fried
Posts: 1783
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:32 pm

Re: Thorns and Bushes

Post by Isaac Fried »

Consider the possibility that הר חוֹרֵב‫,‬ הר סיני and הר האלוהים are all in the fiery volcanic area of east Africa.

Isaac Fried, Boston University
Saboi

Re: Thorns and Bushes

Post by Saboi »

The 'Rose' is one of the primary symbols of 'Aphrodite' and the word ROSE in Aeolic Greek is βρόδον but later the initial letter dropped and became ῥόδον (Rhodes, Roses, Rosettes) but is retained in Hebrew as ברד 'spotted' in Genesis 31:10, also roots Leopard 'Spotted Lion' , which in Hebrew would be ברד ליש henceforth πάρδαλις (Leopard), the spots of a leopard are
called 'Rosettes'.

ברד
ἁβροδίαιτος,
ἁβρά βρόδον (חבר-ברתיו - Jeremiah 13:23)
Αφροδιτη

I have written about a possible geographic context for Atlantis, since Plato describes the location among the Phoenician colonies hence an Hebraic context for Atlantis, although my evidence suggest may have being an Island west of Italy that was populated by Phoenicians and was evacuated due to an eruption.
Saboi

Re: Thorns and Bushes

Post by Saboi »

Plato is the primary author of Atlantis however the word appears in Herodotus in a North-western African context.
Herodotus 4.184
Another ten days' journey from the Garamantes there is again a salt hill and water, where men live called Atarantes. These are the only men whom we know who have no names; for the whole people are called Atarantes, but no man has a name of his own. [2] When the sun is high, they curse and very foully revile him, because his burning heat afflicts their people and their land. [3] After another ten days' journey there is again a hill of salt, and water, and men living there. Near to this salt is a mountain called Atlas, whose shape is slender and conical; and it is said to be so high that its heights cannot be seen, for clouds are always on them winter and summer. The people of the country call it the pillar of heaven. [4] These men get their name, which is Atlantes, from this mountain. It is said that they eat no living creature, and see no dreams in their sleep.
Key words and phrases
Garamantes ( Γαραμάντων)
Salt Hill (ἁλός τε κολωνὸς)
Atarantes ( Ἀτάραντες)
Atlas mountain, whose shape is slender and conical (στεινὸν καὶ κυκλοτερὲς)
Pillar of heaven ( κίονα τοῦ οὐρανοῦ)

Γαραμάντων would actually transliterate into Γρμάντν > חרמונים (Hermonites)

from the land of Jordan (ירדן, Ἀτάραντες)
the Hermonites, from the hill Mizar ( Psa 42:6)
- מצער, μικροῦ, μετρίας

ἁλός τε κολωνὸς - מלח הגל (Mound of Salt)
στεινὸν (Stenos) - צר (Strait)
κίονας (Kionas) - כון, עמוד
Isaac Fried
Posts: 1783
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:32 pm

Re: Thorns and Bushes

Post by Isaac Fried »

'Rose' is indeed from 'red' (Ger. 'rot'). ברד BRD is a variant of פרד PRD, 'separate'.

Isaac Fried, Boston University
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