Ishmael & Josiah

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Saboi

Ishmael & Josiah

Post by Saboi »

סמים - θυμίαμα
בשם - ϝὀσμή
קטר - θυμιατήριον, κέδρος

The first element in the name Ishmael is בשם written ישמ, the word בשם in early Greek
was originally written ϝὀσμή but later written ὀσμή, same with ϝοινος which is יין (οἶνος)
and בשם also the name of his daughter, בשמת (Bosmath).

In Genesis 25:13, the other sons of Ishmael includes מבשם (Mibsam) and קדר (Kedar) which is κέδρος (Cedar) and other words in 14-5, Misham (משמע), Massa (משא) and Hadar (חדד).

The youngest son of Ishmael, since the 'youngest' seems to be the most important character
is called Kedemah (קדמה) a name identical too Κάδμος (Cadmus), also the name of a Phoenician
King, the son of Agenor, also the name of ancient inhabitants of Thebes (תבץ).

The Lexicon entry for קדמ is vague, but i discovered the cognate, φθάνω and the process would be 'φθάνω > קθάν > קθν > קדמ' (Psalm 88:14, Psalm 95:2) and φθάνω means 'come, beforehand, prepare. Another possible cognate is 'κόσμος' (Cosmos) 'Order' and this cognates עדיה , צעדות. δεσμός, κάθεμα and קשש, the word mean 'to order and arrange (troops for battle)' or the arrangement of a dress or decoration. Jeremiah 2:32 (עדיה - κόσμον), Isaiah 3:20 (צעדות - κόσμος)

It is documented in Ancient Greek writing of a 'Phoenician' settlement in mainland Greece
and this is mentioned in Arrian.

Arrian - Anabasis XVI
Heracles was. honored in Tyre many generations before Cadmus set out from Phoenicia and occupied Thebes, and before Semele, the daughter of Cadmus, was born, from whom Dionysus.

This also states that Dionysus was born in the Levant, in Jeremiah 2:32, עדיה is translated
into κόσμον (Cosmos), that i cognate with 'Cadmus' , but עדיה (Adaiah) is the maternal grandfather of Josiah, who's death was lamented throughout the Hebrew Scripture.

Dionysus (Son of Amon, Grandson of Cadmus & Father of Komos)
Josiah (Son of Amon, Grandson of Adaiah & Father of Eliakim)

The Hebrew word for 'Weep' is בכה and the name-sake of Bacchus and Josiah is namesake for Ιακχος, Jesus from שוע means 'Cry' and what is more unusual about Josiah, He is mentioned in the first kings.

1 Kings 13:2
Behold, a child shall be born unto the house of David, Josiah by name; and upon thee shall he offer the priests of the high places that burn incense upon thee, and men's bones shall be burnt upon thee.

One could make the argument that the death of Josiah created so much Lamentation, he was deified into the weeping-god.

Lee Magee
Saboi

Re: Ishmael & Josiah

Post by Saboi »

The major misconception about Ishmael, He settled in 'Arabia' and thus the forefather of Muhammad but the name 'Muhammad', the root of the name is طمع or מחמד or חמד which is θυμός and this also the root of θυμίαμα or סמים 'Incense' , other cognates include Perfume and Thyme.

Lebanon is famous for its Cedars and this burns better than other woods, due to its high oil content and the Hebrew word for Frankincense is lebanah because cedar resin turns white when burnt, the word 'Incense' from Latin, 'Incendere', Gk 'Kandaros' , cognate of קטר , קדח, קדר along with Cedar.
Saboi

Re: Ishmael & Josiah

Post by Saboi »

Gen 25:18 - They dwelt from Havilah unto Shur, that is before Egypt, as thou goest toward Assyria:

שור - archaic name for Tyre
חוילה - ἔπαυλος

The root of חוילה is חות, the word 'חותיהם' (Villages) in Numbers 32:41
is translated into ἐπαύλεις 'steading, village, ' also a reading of 'חצרים'
also the ו in חוילה in Greek is ϝ.

ἐπαύλεις > ἐϝαύλεις > חϝיλה, or חϝי/οἰκῶ

מצרים
A variant of חצרים, מבצרים , צור, מצור, מצרות, מצורה, מצרת , צר
ὀχυραὶ, χάρακας,Τύρου, Τυρίων, τειχήρεις, Μαψαρ, στερεός, κυκλοτερής

This name is vague and seems to be a location in North Syria, perhaps Antioch
or its predecessor or Ugarit

Gen 10:13 - Ludim(Lydia) Pathrusim (Pteria) Kaphtor (Cappadocia)
Isaac Fried
Posts: 1783
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:32 pm

Re: Ishmael & Josiah

Post by Isaac Fried »

קדם QEDEM is 'east', where the sun comes first. See Gen. 29:1
וַיִּשָּׂא יַעֲקֹב רַגְלָיו וַיֵּלֶךְ אַרְצָה בְנֵי קֶדֶם
KJV: "Then Jacob went on his journey, and came into the land of the people of the east"
Cadmus is then possibly "the man of the east". Academia is possibly the place of study the wisdom of the east, namely reading and writing.

Isaac Fried, Boston University
Saboi

Re: Ishmael & Josiah

Post by Saboi »

Genesis 10:29 - Havilah son of Joktan (יקטן)

יקטן (Joktan) looks like a variant of יקשן (Jokshan), however i suspect the initial -יק is οἰκῶ (בית) , perhaps οἰκουμένη 'inhabited region' or οἴκοθεν, οἴκαδε or perhaps 'οἶκος φοίνικος'' (בית שני)
and all the names are Phoenician colonies throughout the Mediterranean.

Italia (בית אלון ) *ϝοικ- > οἰκ, ית < בית'

The Latin 'foedus' according to pseudo-pie ' from Proto-Indo-European *bʰeydʰ-.
and yet, *bʰeyd is בית or ϝοικ, poisonous pie.

Lee
Saboi

Re: Ishmael & Josiah

Post by Saboi »

Isaac Fried wrote:קדם QEDEM is 'east', where the sun comes first. See Gen. 29:1
וַיִּשָּׂא יַעֲקֹב רַגְלָיו וַיֵּלֶךְ אַרְצָה בְנֵי קֶדֶם
KJV: "Then Jacob went on his journey, and came into the land of the people of the east"
Cadmus is then possibly "the man of the east". Academia is possibly the place of study the wisdom of the east, namely reading and writing.

Isaac Fried, Boston University
So Jacob went on a journey into the 'Eastern Land' then he must have began his journey
from the West, 'Eden must also be in the west, since 'Nod' (Νῦσα) is the East of Eden.

Ezekiel 31:16 - trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon

Europa (namesake for Europe) was also born in the Levant and carried of by Zeus from the shores of Phoenicia and she inhabited Greek islands, so they many 'expulsion' stories, perhaps 'Europa'
is Queen Dodo, founder of Carthage.
Last edited by Saboi on Sun Nov 25, 2018 1:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
Saboi

Re: Ishmael & Josiah

Post by Saboi »

1 Kings 13:2

This is the verse that prophecies Josiah, Here are the Septuagint & Masoretic version, Every single word and particle in the Hebrew is perfectly represented in the Greek and the order of words is identical.
Masoretic Septuagint
ו καὶ
יקרא ἐπεκάλεσεν
על πρὸς
ה τὸ
מזבח θυσιαστήριον
ב ἐν
דבר λόγῳ
יהוה κυρίου
ו καὶ
יאמר εἶπεν
מזבח θυσιαστήριον
מזבח θυσιαστήριον
כה τάδε
אמר λέγει
יהוה κύριος
הנה ἰδοὺ
בן υἱὸς
נולד τίκτεται
ל τῷ
בית οἴκῳ
דוד Δαυιδ
יאשיהו Ιωσιας
שמ ὄνομα
ו αὐτῷ
ו καὶ
זבח θύσει
עלי ἐπὶ
ך σὲ
את τοὺς
כהני ἱερεῖς
ה τῶν
במות ὑψηλῶν
ה τοὺς
מקטרים ἐπιθύοντας
עלי ἐπὶ
ך σὲ
ו καὶ
עצמות ὀστᾶ
אדם ἀνθρώπων
שרפו καύσει
עלי ἐπὶ
ך σέ
This Greek as the word τίκτεται , as a reading of נולד and this is important, this word sets the tense, according too the Greek Lexicon, τίκτεται is 'present tense', this very word is used in Josephus.

The Antiquities of the Jews, 1.146
Heber begat Joktan and Phaleg: he was called Phaleg because he was born(τίκτεται) at the dispersion of the nations to their several countries; for Phaleg among the Hebrews signifies division.

https://lexundria.com/j_aj/1.146/wst
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... i%2Fktetai

This means the reading in 1 Kings 13:2 is wrong
'Behold, a child was born unto the house of David'

1 Chronicles 22:9 - ἰδοὺ υἱὸς τίκτεταί σοι : הנה בן נולד לך

Josephus in 1.146 also confirmed the possible equation of Ἰούκταν with οἰκήσεων
and also the spelling in Josephus, Ἰούκταν, compared too Ιεκταν in the Septuagint
and Ἰούκταν would be a transliteration of יהוקטן e.g. יהודיא / Ιουδαία

זבח = θύος, θύη, θύω 'Burnt Sacrifice, offer by burning' * θ/ב , ז/ύ
מזבח - ἀποθύω 'to offer as a votive sacrifice
Isaac Fried
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Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:32 pm

Re: Ishmael & Josiah

Post by Isaac Fried »

"Europa (namesake for Europe)" is the land of the evening המערב, the Magreb.

Isaac Fried, Boston University
Isaac Fried
Posts: 1783
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:32 pm

Re: Ishmael & Josiah

Post by Isaac Fried »

בכה, 'weep', is a variant of פכה, 'gush forth' (also of פקע and בקע), as in Ezekiel 47:1-2
וַיְשִׁבֵנִי אֶל פֶּתַח הַבַּיִת וְהִנֵּה מַיִם יֹצְאִים מִתַּחַת מִפְתַּן הַבַּיִת קָדִימָה כִּי פְנֵי הַבַּיִת קָדִים וְהַמַּיִם יֹרְדִים מִתַּחַת מִכֶּתֶף הַבַּיִת הַיְמָנִית מִנֶּגֶב לַמִּזְבֵּחַ. וַיּוֹצִאֵנִי דֶּרֶךְ שַׁעַר צָפוֹנָה וַיְסִבֵּנִי דֶּרֶךְ חוּץ אֶל שַׁעַר הַחוּץ דֶּרֶךְ הַפּוֹנֶה קָדִים וְהִנֵּה מַיִם מְפַכִּים מִן הַכָּתֵף הַיְמָנִית
KJV: Afterward he brought me again unto the door of the house; and, behold, waters issued out from under the threshold of the house eastward: for the forefront of the house stood toward the east, and the waters came down from under from the right side of the house, at the south side of the altar. Then brought he me out of the way of the gate northward, and led me about the way without unto the utter gate by the way that looketh eastward; and, behold, there ran out waters on the right side.

בשם BSM (related to פטם 'fatten'), is 'full of body', methinks. בשמת = בשם-את is 'the beautiful', methinks.

Isaac Fried, Boston University
Isaac Fried
Posts: 1783
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:32 pm

Re: Ishmael & Josiah

Post by Isaac Fried »

The name מצרים for the land along the river Nile, comes possibly from the fact that it consists mostly of two narrow צרים CARIYM strips of land clinging to the river. I recall having mentioned it here before.

Isaac Fried, Boston University
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