LXX/MT/DSS text critical problem of Dt 32:43, etc.

[kwrandolph]

I thought Adam Clarke's explanation was good (http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/cmt/clarke/psa040.htm).
What is wrong with Clarke's?

The verb in question is not “to bore” rather “to furnish as in to provide”.

Looking at the context, it’s possible to see that “ears” was meant in that the verses preceding and following are about hearing and speaking. “You provide ears for me” so that when I speak, people hear.

These are the kind of errors we see in the MT when compared to DSS: a word for word match, but some rare misspellings of words. I do not know Greek, so I can't follow Ken's argument. A discussion of this on b-greek is here http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/b-gr ... 27504.html

“Body” — is this a case where we misunderstand the translator’s intent? While at the time of Homer, it meant only a dead body, centuries later it seems to have been used even figuratively rather than referring only to a physical body. I’m not a Greek expert, so I rely on the following:

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... %3Dsw%3Dma

So could the Greek more accurately be translated “You prepared somebody for me”?

In other words, was the LXX here an interpretation rather than a direct translation, and the people of the time recognized what was meant (while we today don’t)?

Karl W. Randolph.

[SteveMiller]

I thought Adam Clarke's explanation was good (http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/cmt/clarke/psa040.htm).
What is wrong with Clarke's?

The verb in question is not “to bore” rather “to furnish as in to provide”.

Actually it was not Adam Clarke's explanation, but Dr. Kennicott's quoted by Clarke. I agree that the verb does not mean "bore". I do not think this verb could be used in an allusion to Exo 21:2.
I was referring to Kennicott's explanation of how אז גוה כרית לי became אזנים כרית לי, though I think the word for "body" would have said גְּוִיָּ֔ה rather than גוה. This is what I meant by the kind of mistake I see in the MT when compared to DSS, LXX and NT.

Looking at the context, it’s possible to see that “ears” was meant in that the verses preceding and following are about hearing and speaking. “You provide ears for me” so that when I speak, people hear.

There's nothing said about the people hearing. This would be strange, complex way of saying something simple.

These are the kind of errors we see in the MT when compared to DSS: a word for word match, but some rare misspellings of words. I do not know Greek, so I can't follow Ken's argument. A discussion of this on b-greek is here http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/b-gr ... 27504.html

“Body” — is this a case where we misunderstand the translator’s intent? While at the time of Homer, it meant only a dead body, centuries later it seems to have been used even figuratively rather than referring only to a physical body. I’m not a Greek expert, so I rely on the following:

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... %3Dsw%3Dma

So could the Greek more accurately be translated “You prepared somebody for me”?

In other words, was the LXX here an interpretation rather than a direct translation, and the people of the time recognized what was meant (while we today don’t)?

Karl W. Randolph.

The Greek word in the NT is used for a body either dead or living, which is the same for גְּוִיָּ֔ה in the OT.

[kwrandolph]

Looking at the context, it’s possible to see that “ears” was meant in that the verses preceding and following are about hearing and speaking. “You provide ears for me” so that when I speak, people hear.

There's nothing said about the people hearing. This would be strange, complex way of saying something simple.

Look at the verses preceding and following this verse.

These are the kind of errors we see in the MT when compared to DSS: a word for word match, but some rare misspellings of words. I do not know Greek, so I can't follow Ken's argument. A discussion of this on b-greek is here http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/b-gr ... 27504.html

“Body” — is this a case where we misunderstand the translator’s intent? While at the time of Homer, it meant only a dead body, centuries later it seems to have been used even figuratively rather than referring only to a physical body. I’m not a Greek expert, so I rely on the following:

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... %3Dsw%3Dma

So could the Greek more accurately be translated “You prepared somebody for me”?

In other words, was the LXX here an interpretation rather than a direct translation, and the people of the time recognized what was meant (while we today don’t)?

The Greek word in the NT is used for a body either dead or living, which is the same for גְּוִיָּ֔ה in the OT.

Did you look at the reference I posted, from Tufts University? That one said that while the word has a physical meaning, it was also used in a metaphorical manner to make a point. That brings up my question, was the LXX using a metaphorical translation, instead of a direct one, that was understood then but not recognized today?

Strictly speaking, this is a Greek question rather than a Hebrew one, but one that has a bearing on the Hebrew text. If it is recognized that it is a metaphorical body rather than a physical body, and that it can refer to a person as a person, then does it mean someone to hear?

Karl W. Randolph.

[SteveMiller]

There's nothing said about the people hearing. This would be strange, complex way of saying something simple.

Look at the verses preceding and following this verse.

I did. I have the psalm memorized. It is one of my favorites. I don't see hearing there.

Did you look at the reference I posted, from Tufts University? That one said that while the word has a physical meaning, it was also used in a metaphorical manner to make a point. That brings up my question, was the LXX using a metaphorical translation, instead of a direct one, that was understood then but not recognized today?

Strictly speaking, this is a Greek question rather than a Hebrew one, but one that has a bearing on the Hebrew text. If it is recognized that it is a metaphorical body rather than a physical body, and that it can refer to a person as a person, then does it mean someone to hear?

Yes, I read Tufts. If the verse was not also quoted in Hebrews 10:5, I would consider the meaning you propose as possible. But we have more info from Heb 10:5-10: Paul understood the word to mean a physical body, and judged that his Jewish audience did too. I rather understand that the MT was corrupted as explained by Kennicott.

[kwrandolph]

There's nothing said about the people hearing. This would be strange, complex way of saying something simple.

One of the things I noticed is that the later pre-Babylonian Exile Biblical Hebrew authors often wrote in rather complex style, which makes it more difficult to understand. Saying something simple in a complex way is par for the course.

Look at the verses preceding and following this verse.

Verse 6: “You do much, you YHWH my God, your miraculous actions and considerations are for us. There is none who can arrange with you. I make known and I speak, they (the speaking and making known) make firm the recounting.”

Verse 8: “Then I say, behold I come with a book scroll written concerning me.”

Verse 10: “I report justice in a great assembly, behold I don’t restrain my lips, YHWH you know it.”

I did. I have the psalm memorized. It is one of my favorites. I don't see hearing there.

There’s plenty about making known, speaking, saying, reporting, do not all of which require listening to be effective?

Did you look at the reference I posted, from Tufts University? That one said that while the word has a physical meaning, it was also used in a metaphorical manner to make a point. That brings up my question, was the LXX using a metaphorical translation, instead of a direct one, that was understood then but not recognized today?

Strictly speaking, this is a Greek question rather than a Hebrew one, but one that has a bearing on the Hebrew text. If it is recognized that it is a metaphorical body rather than a physical body, and that it can refer to a person as a person, then does it mean someone to hear?

Yes, I read Tufts. If the verse was not also quoted in Hebrews 10:5, I would consider the meaning you propose as possible. But we have more info from Heb 10:5-10: Paul understood the word to mean a physical body, and judged that his Jewish audience did too. I rather understand that the MT was corrupted as explained by Kennicott.

I don’t see that in Hebrews. In Hebrews I see a discussion of the first part of the verse, but not of the phrase in question.

Karl W. Randolph.