Isaiah 57:8 YD XZYT

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kwrandolph
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Isaiah 57:8 YD XZYT

Postby kwrandolph » Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:10 pm

Dear All:

When reading through Isaiah, the last two words gave me a pause:

ואחר הדלת והמזוזה שמת זכרונך  כי מאתי גלית ותעלי הרחבת משכבך ותכרת לך מהם—אהבת משכבם יד חזית

The Great Isaiah scroll has the same reading.

LXX has something that is completely different:

και οπισω των σταθμων της θυρας σου εθηκας μνημοσυνα σου ωου οτι εαν απ εμου αποστης πλειον τι εξεις ηγαπησας τους κοιμωμενους μετα σου

which makes it look as if the translator was paraphrasing and just as puzzled as I. Below are some thoughts:

יד comes from the root ידה having the meaning “to point out, a motion of the hand outwards as seen also in ⇒ to praise, to thank, to cast lots”. It is used in a wide variety of contexts giving understandings as “hand, often used metaphorically to refer to its use for pointing and grabbing ⇒ a pointed out place Dt 23:13 ⇒ pointer Ez 21:24 ⇒ connector Ex 26:17”.

חזית in this verse appears to be used as a noun, with probably the same or similar meaning as it has in Aramaic, namely that of a “vision”. This form is found several times in Aramaic in Daniel, but only eight times in Hebrew, six times clearly as verbs. However in Ezekiel 13:8 it appears to be used as a noun as well.

So are these two words together a “pointer to visioning”? This is in the context of talking about an apostate people, but I’m not sure exactly how this fits in.

Karl W. Randolph.

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Ken M. Penner
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Re: Isaiah 57:8 YD XZYT

Postby Ken M. Penner » Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:02 am

Regarding the Greek, Mirjam van der Voorm-Croughs says,
"The translator may have elided the cryptic expression יד חזית because he did not grasp its sense in the context" (The Old Greek of Isaiah:  An Analysis of Its Pluses and Minuses. Leiden University, 2010).
She then has a note:
"See also Ziegler, Untersuchungen, 50, 53. An alternative explanation is that the translator wanted to avoid the inference of a sexual meaning to this clause; see Edward J. Kissane, The Book of Isaiah. Translated from a Critically Revised Hebrew Text with Commentary (2 vols.; Dublin: Browne and Nolan, 1941–1943), 2:223; Baer, When We All Go Home, 179–181."
Ken M. Penner, Ph.D.
St. Francis Xavier University

kwrandolph
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Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:51 am

Re: Isaiah 57:8 YD XZYT

Postby kwrandolph » Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:22 am

Ken M. Penner wrote:Regarding the Greek, Mirjam van der Voorm-Croughs says,
"The translator may have elided the cryptic expression יד חזית because he did not grasp its sense in the context" (The Old Greek of Isaiah:  An Analysis of Its Pluses and Minuses. Leiden University, 2010).
She then has a note:
"See also Ziegler, Untersuchungen, 50, 53. An alternative explanation is that the translator wanted to avoid the inference of a sexual meaning to this clause; see Edward J. Kissane, The Book of Isaiah. Translated from a Critically Revised Hebrew Text with Commentary (2 vols.; Dublin: Browne and Nolan, 1941–1943), 2:223; Baer, When We All Go Home, 179–181."


Ken, thanks for the response.

It basically looks like she agrees with me, that by the time the LXX was written, that some of Biblical Hebrew had been forgotten.

However, these sexual innuendoes as in the note leave me cold.

Karl W. Randolph.

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Ken M. Penner
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Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:31 pm

Re: Isaiah 57:8 YD XZYT

Postby Ken M. Penner » Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:08 am

kwrandolph wrote:
Ken M. Penner wrote:Baer, When We All Go Home, 179–181."

...However, these sexual innuendoes as in the note leave me cold.

You might be able to see some of Baer's comments on 57.8 at http://books.google.ca/books?id=m5hzYa- ... 1&pg=PA179 or https://www.zotero.org/groups/septuagin ... ZZP/q/baer
Ken M. Penner, Ph.D.
St. Francis Xavier University


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