Fasting in Biblical Hebrew?

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Mark Lightman
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Re: Fasting in Biblical Hebrew?

Postby Mark Lightman » Sat Aug 30, 2014 5:24 pm

Isaac Fried wrote:...רעב (akin to רעף)...

HI, Isaac.

Gesenius connects רעב with רחב "The primary idea appears to lie in that of an ample, i.e. empty stomach." But your connecting it with רעף is, methinks, decidedly less far-fetched.

In the modern version of the language, רצפה is a tiled kitchen.
Mark Lightman

kwrandolph
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Re: Fasting in Biblical Hebrew?

Postby kwrandolph » Sat Aug 30, 2014 9:11 pm

Ken M. Penner wrote:
kwrandolph wrote:I suspect the connection of צום with fasting is medieval.

I can speak to this suspicion, at least. The LXX already translates צום consistently as νηστεύω, which meant going without food already in Homer's time.
Two implications: (1) the Greek translators were not in doubt about what צוםmeant; (2) already it was understood to mean going without food in the centuries before Christ.


Thank you, Ken.

Using your answer as a guide, I decided to double check what you wrote, and yes, the Greek term seems to have had a constant meaning throughout its history.

But did the Hebrew term retain a constant meaning, or did it change when there were no more native speakers of the language? There were two centuries between when Biblical Hebrew ceased to be spoken as a natively spoken language, and when the LXX was written, long enough time for practices to change under the influence of exile and cognate language domination. But is there any way to verify this? I don’t know of any.

In closing, this is a term where most of its uses are in such vague contexts that a definitive understanding of its meaning cannot be worked out. It doesn’t seem to refer to fasting per se, but may have been connected to fasting in post exile Jewish practices.

Karl W. Randolph.

Isaac Fried
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Re: Fasting in Biblical Hebrew?

Postby Isaac Fried » Sat Aug 30, 2014 9:16 pm

Yes, רצפה RICPAH, 'tiled floor', is like רדפה RIDPAH, one tile chasing another. רציפות RECIYPUT is 'continuity', the upcoming event at the heels of the previous one. מרצפת MIRCEPET is 'tile'.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

Isaac Fried
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Re: Fasting in Biblical Hebrew?

Postby Isaac Fried » Sat Aug 30, 2014 9:24 pm

Karl says
Biblical Hebrew ceased to be spoken as a natively spoken language

says I
We are still waiting for the evidence that Biblical Hebrew was ever spoken.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

Isaac Fried
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Re: Fasting in Biblical Hebrew?

Postby Isaac Fried » Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:56 am

The רצפה RICPAH of Isaiah 6:6
ובידו רצפה במלקחים לקח מעל המזבח
KJV: "having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar"
is a רשפה RI$PAH, as in songs 8:6-7
כי עזה כמוות אהבה קשה כשאול קנאה רשפיה רשפי אש שלהבתיה מים רבים לא יוכלו לכבות את האהבה ונהרות לא ישטפוה
KJV: "for love is strong as death; jealousy is cruel as the grave: the coals thereof are coals of fire, which hath a most vehement flame. Many waters cannot quench love, neither can the floods drown it"

Isaac Fried, Boston University

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SteveMiller
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Re: Fasting in Biblical Hebrew?

Postby SteveMiller » Mon Sep 01, 2014 8:58 pm

kwrandolph wrote:Then you have the example of Zechariah 8:19 where the צום is connected with good times.

I understand Zech 8:19 to mean that the self-appointed times of mourning (7:5) should become joyous times.
Sincerely yours,
Steve Miller
Detroit
http://www.voiceInWilderness.info
Honesty is the best policy. - George Washington (1732-99)


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