Interrogatives

Classical Hebrew morphology and syntax, aspect, linguistics, discourse analysis, and related topics
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CowboysDad
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Interrogatives

Post by CowboysDad »

I'm wanting to study those OT passages that are translated as interrogatives when there is no interrogative marker. Can you recommend a thorough online article on the topic?
Daniel McCabe, ThM, DMin
kwrandolph
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Re: Interrogatives

Post by kwrandolph »

CowboysDad wrote:I'm wanting to study those OT passages that are translated as interrogatives when there is no interrogative marker.
Do such passages exist? Are they consistently translated as interrogatives across all translations? Across all languages? Is there a list of such passages?

Unless they are consistently translated as interrogatives, they can reflect the idiosyncrasies of a translator or target language, and not of Biblical Hebrew. So I would like to know if such passages exist.

Karl W. Randolph.
CowboysDad
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Re: Interrogatives

Post by CowboysDad »

There are passages like Jonah 4.11 and Exodus 8:22 (English v. 26) in which the context suggests an interrogative, and I wanted to study similar passages to see if there might be any patterns.
Daniel McCabe, ThM, DMin
kwrandolph
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Re: Interrogatives

Post by kwrandolph »

The reason I asked if the passages were consistently translated as interrogatives in all languages, is because of the examples you cited.
CowboysDad wrote:There are passages like Jonah 4.11
I read this as irony, not a question. Though I admit that in irony a question is implied.
CowboysDad wrote: and Exodus 8:22 (English v. 26)
I have always found this verse difficult to understand. My first reaction is because of my poor understanding of Biblical Hebrew language.

Another reaction is that possibly here we deal with copyist error. Only a few words of this verse is preserved in the DSS, so we can’t answer this reaction.

A third reaction is that הן at times introduces a question, or more accurately an implied question.
CowboysDad wrote: in which the context suggests an interrogative, and I wanted to study similar passages to see if there might be any patterns.
Do you know of such a list? That would be the first step to analyze any patterns.

Karl W. Randolph.
CowboysDad
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Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:38 pm

Re: Interrogatives

Post by CowboysDad »

A colleague of mine is suggesting that Deut. 29:4, "Yet the LORD has not given you a heart to perceive and eyes to see and ears to hear to this very day," should be translated as an interrogative despite the absence of any interrogative marker ("Has not the LORD given you a heart to perceive and eyes to see and ears to hear to this very day?"). I am not predisposed to translate it as a question without a marker, which sent me on a quest to discover if there are passages (without markers) that do so. I don't have a list. I had thought that maybe this was a path that others had trodden previously and that there might be something written on the matter. I do not have the depth of scholarship that is so evident on this forum, so did not even recognize הן as an interrogative marker. That's good stuff! Am appreciating the help!
Daniel McCabe, ThM, DMin
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Ken M. Penner
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Re: Interrogatives

Post by Ken M. Penner »

Joüon §161a wrote:A question, even when genuine, can be indicated, as in many languages, merely by the rising intonation(1): 1Kg 1.24 אַתָּה אָמַ֫רְתָּhave you ordered?; 2Kg 9.11 אַתֶּם יְדַעְתֶּםdo you know? (where the’ interrogative sense is not widely recognised). Sometimes it is the word order which gives a further indication of a question: 1Sm 16.4 שָׁלוֹם בּוֹאֶ֑ךָis your visit friendly? (but with הֲin 1Kg 2.13 with the same word order); Gn 27.24 (with הֲin vs. 21); 2Sm 18.29 (with הֲin vs. 32). The omission of the interrogative הis common after וintroducing an opposition: Jb 2.10 ואת־הָרָע לא נְקַבֵּלand shall we not receive evil? This type of sentence is particularly frequent with a pronoun and in surprised, rhetorical questions(2): Jdg 14.16 “I have not told it to my father nor to my mother וְלָךְ אַגִּידand am I to reveal it to you?”; 11.23; 2Sm 11.11; Is 37.11; Jr 25.29; 45.5; 49.12; Ez 20.31; Jn 4.11.
Paul Joüon and T. Muraoka, A Grammar of Biblical Hebrew (Roma: Pontificio Istituto Biblico, 2006), 573–574.
Footnotes to Joüon §161a wrote:(1) Gn 39.9 אֵינֶ֫נּוּ גָדוֹל … מִמֶּ֫נִּי ולא חָשַׂךְ… may be such a case: Surely he is greater than I …? Even so he has not withheld …
(2) Cf. Steiner 1997: 167.
Steiner 1997 is “Ancient Hebrew,” in R. Hetzron (ed.), The Semitic Languages (London), pp. 145–73.
Ken M. Penner, Ph.D.
St. Francis Xavier University
kwrandolph
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Re: Interrogatives

Post by kwrandolph »

Ken M. Penner wrote:
Joüon §161a wrote:
Did you look up the verses cited by Joüon, or merely trust him?
Ken M. Penner wrote:
Joüon §161a wrote: 1Kg 1.24 אַתָּה אָמַ֫רְתָּhave you ordered?;
This is a statement in Hebrew, not a question. Nathan is putting words in King David’s mouth which David had not said. The context is why it is often translated as a question.

I think this example, and some others, may indicate a cultural difference between modern English and Biblical Hebrew—that Hebrew uses statements in places where we use questions.
Ken M. Penner wrote:
Joüon §161a wrote: 2Kg 9.11 אַתֶּם יְדַעְתֶּםdo you know? (where the’ interrogative sense is not widely recognised). Sometimes it is the word order which gives a further indication of a question: 1Sm 16.4 שָׁלוֹם בּוֹאֶ֑ךָis your visit friendly?
Look at the context and grammar—the elders of the city are not saying this, rather Samuel. They are not questioning if Samuel is coming in peace, rather Samuel is telling each elder that he can greet Samuel.
Ken M. Penner wrote:
Joüon §161a wrote: (but with הֲin 1Kg 2.13 with the same word order);
In contrast, this is Bathsheba asking if Adonijah is coming to her in fullness. Different context.
Ken M. Penner wrote:
Joüon §161a wrote: Gn 27.24 (with הֲin vs. 21);
The question was in verse 21, but after feeling the hairy arms, Isaac made a statement “You are my son Esau” to which Jacob merely assented.
Ken M. Penner wrote:
Joüon §161a wrote: 2Sm 18.29 (with הֲin vs. 32). The omission of the interrogative הis common after וintroducing an opposition:
Again, look at the context. This is not really a question, because of the expectation by David that the news would be good. One of the commands was that Absalom not be killed, so when the one messenger came with the expectation of good news, David expected the command to be fulfilled.

The second messenger didn’t have that expectation.
Ken M. Penner wrote:
Joüon §161a wrote: Jb 2.10 ואת־הָרָע לא נְקַבֵּלand shall we not receive evil? This type of sentence is particularly frequent with a pronoun and in surprised, rhetorical questions(2):
This brings up a theological question—what exactly is meant? If we take it in the sense of Romans 8:28, then it is a statement. If we take it merely in appearances, then is it a question?
Ken M. Penner wrote:
Joüon §161a wrote: Jdg 14.16 “I have not told it to my father nor to my mother וְלָךְ אַגִּידand am I to reveal it to you?”;
I’ve always read this as a statement, not a question. “I haven’t told my father and mother, yet I will tell it to you.”
Ken M. Penner wrote:
Joüon §161a wrote: 11.23; 2Sm 11.11; Is 37.11; Jr 25.29; 45.5; 49.12; Ez 20.31; Jn 4.11.
Paul Joüon and T. Muraoka, A Grammar of Biblical Hebrew (Roma: Pontificio Istituto Biblico, 2006), 573–574.
I didn’t check the verses where further comments weren’t made. But is not a pattern clear, that Joüon is taking as questions what Hebrew wrote as statements?
Ken M. Penner wrote:
Footnotes to Joüon §161a wrote:(1) Gn 39.9 אֵינֶ֫נּוּ גָדוֹל … מִמֶּ֫נִּי ולא חָשַׂךְ… may be such a case: Surely he is greater than I …? Even so he has not withheld …
(2) Cf. Steiner 1997: 167.
Steiner 1997 is “Ancient Hebrew,” in R. Hetzron (ed.), The Semitic Languages (London), pp. 145–73.
Sorry, but this last verse is definitely a statement, not a question. Joseph had become the de facto ruler of the household, except only the owner was above him and Joseph followed the owner’s commands. The woman was withheld from Joseph by the owner’s command. Grammar and context both make this a statement.

Is not much of the understanding theological rather than linguistic? For example, Deuteronomy 29:3, in spite of all that Israel went through, what they experienced and observed, they as a people still did not know, their eyes were still blinded, making this a statement, not a question. Or cultural rather than linguistic? The example of Nathan putting words of a statement in David’s mouth with the expectation that David would rouse himself and contradict that statement, because David had never made such a statement.

Is this not more a question of translation rather than understanding Biblical Hebrew practices?

Karl W. Randolph.
kwrandolph
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Re: Interrogatives

Post by kwrandolph »

I missed commenting on a verse that I looked up:
Ken M. Penner wrote:
Joüon §161a wrote: 2Kg 9.11 אַתֶּם יְדַעְתֶּםdo you know? (where the’ interrogative sense is not widely recognised).
Paul Joüon and T. Muraoka, A Grammar of Biblical Hebrew (Roma: Pontificio Istituto Biblico, 2006), 573–574.
Even in English this comes out as a statement. Look at the context—the other people questioned Jehu “Why did this madman come unto you?” to which Jehu responded, “Oh, so you know this man and his manner of speech.” A question is implied, but the statement itself is not a question. The question that preceded the statement implied that the people knew the man.

Karl W. Randolph.
CowboysDad
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Re: Interrogatives

Post by CowboysDad »

Sure appreciate the posts. Lots to work through!
Daniel McCabe, ThM, DMin
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