I´m really sorry if this is starting to get annoying. It´s just, I found this interpretation and now have to evaluate whether it is tenable or not. Yesterday I learned that this is also the interpretation of Schnieringer, who wrote one of the most important books on Ps 8 in the last few years, which makes this question even more important. Wouldn´t have thought that it needed that much discussion...
edit: Karl: I didn't know the expression "to go foolish on sb.", so I asked an American friend of mine. He translated it as "Stop acting dim-witted", so I took it as an offense (maybe he played a prank on me). Now I learned that it means "to overdo something", "to become obsessed with something", so the post below may be a bit harsh a reaction as regards its tone. I'm sorry for that; it was a misunderstanding.
/edit
Karl:
Well... fine. Firstly:
עֹז. If you insist, let´s talk about
עֹז. When we look at the dictionaries (I know that you don´t look at translations and that you don´t trust dictionaries, so I did that for you) we find the meaning "stronghold, fortress, bulwark" for:
- Ex 15:2 (König)
- Ps 8:3 (DCH; Ges18; KBL3; Siegmund/Stade)
- Ps 30:8 (Siegmund/Stade)
- Ps 46:2 (Siegmund/Stade)
- Ps 59:10.18 (Siegmund/Stade)
- Ps 118:14 (König)
- Pr 21:22 (Ges 18; KBL3; Siegmund/Stade)
- Is 12:2 (König)
- Jer 16:19 (Siegmund/Stade)
- Jer 51,53 (DCH)
- Am 3:11 (DCH; Ges18; KBL3; König; Siegmund/Stade)
It probably isn´t the most probable meaning in most of these cases
(Personally, I´d regard as promising verses (besides Ps 8:3) Ps 59:10.18 (|| מִשְׂגַּב); Pr 21:22 (|| עִיר גִּבֹּרִים); Jer 16:19 (יְהוָה עֻזִּי וּמָעֻזִּי וּמְנוּסִי); Am 3:11 (|| אַרמוֹן).), but nevertheless, in my view it´s the case that you have to prove that
עֹז can´t mean "stronghold, fortress, bulwark"; not the other way round.
Secondly:
I looked up all the occurrences of מפה and found that some refer to “from here” as in “from here to there”, other times “from a mouth”. I also looked up the construct version מפי and every case found that the prefixed מ is used in the sense of “from” even though in other cases the prefixed מ is used in the sense of “because of”, just never in this context.
So what? The min causae does exist; you admit that yourself. What else do you need?
And it isn´t even true. "
מִפִּי PN" has the meaning
- "according to the word of PN" (or frequently also simply "verbatim") in Jer 23:16; Jer 36:4.6.27.32; Jer 45:1; Ezra 1:1; 2Chr 35:22; 2Chr 36:12.
- In Job 36:16; Ps 22:22; Am 3:12 it means "from (not: "out of"; cf. Am 3:12) the jaws of X".
- In Est 7:8; Is 45:23; Is 55:11; Klg 3:38 we are dealing with an idiom: מִפִּי + דָּבָר + יָצָא; in Ez 3:17; Ez 33:7; Zec 8:9 we are dealing with it´s counterpart (מִפִּי + דָּבָר + שָׁמַע), so you surely don´t want to cite this as evidence.
=> The only verse remaining is Ps 119:43.
But if you really need a direct parallel I could offer Dtn 31:21:
וְעָנְתָה הַשִּׁירָה הַזֹּאת לְפָנָיו לְעֵד כִּי לֹא תִשָּׁכַח מִפִּי זַרְעוֹ
I googled for "forgotten out of the mouth". Dtn 31:21 or quotations of Dtn 31:21 are the only results. This is not very surprising, for it isn´t a very meaningful expression - "to be forgotten out of the mouth of X".
But the sense of the verse isn´t that difficult: It starts with "This song shall testify against them as a witness, FOR...", and then follows the reason: "it shall not be forgotten." This is specified by
מִפִּי זַרְעוֹ: "It shall not be forgotten" +
מנ+ "mouth of their seed". Obviously, the "mouth of their seed" doesn´t refer to the place from where it shall not be forgotten, but to the reason: It shall not be forgotten because they´ll still be singing it (cf. "because their descendants will still be reciting it" (CJB); "But this song will still be sung" (GNT); "Thir children won´t forget this song; they´ll be singing it" (MSG); "Sie werden es immer noch singen" ("They´ll still be singing it") (GN) and so on.). So Dtn 31:21 means "because of the mouths of their descendants" (again,
פֶּה refers to an act of speech), or more natural: "because of their descendant´s singing".
Apart from that I´m not sure what you want to prove. The translation "From the mouth of little children and suckling babes you set up praise." does exist quite often and it is possible that there is an
עֹז="praise". I already admitted that, so I don´t know what you are defending or why you are that zeroed in on
עֹז. Plus, I know already that you like your interpretation better than the one presented above, but contrasting an interpretation A with an interpretation B is never a good way for disproving interpretation A, so I don´t know why you still go on about it...
So, again, I´m really sorry if this is starting to get annoying. Nevertheless, any help in evaluating would be appreciated,
Sebastian