Psalm 97:7-9 different translation

[Kenneth Greifer]

I don't know if this translation of Psalm 97:7-9 makes sense or not. I don't know why they use the command form of the verb at the end "bow to Him, all gods."

Usually, it is translated something like "Let be ashamed all servants of an idol who are boasting (praising themselves) in (by) gods (things of nought). Bow down to Him all gods. Zion heard and was glad..."

I think it might say:

"Let be ashamed all of the servants of an idol who are boasting (praising themselves) in (by) gods: All gods have bowed to it (their idol)." Maybe they are bragging about their idol (god) being worshiped by all of the other gods. Maybe they feel proud of their god or of themselves for having a great god that all of the other gods have bowed to.

Maybe then it says that Zion heard and was glad because G-d will punish them for what they said since G-d did not bow to their idol.

I don't know if it can be understood this way and why it is seen as being G-d who is bowed to by gods.

I assume this translation does not go against anyone's religious beliefs, so someone might answer me.

Kenneth Greifer

[S_Walch]

Any reason why השתחוו couldn't mean "shall bow", as in future tense, or even indicative "will bow", giving us "All gods shall/will bow to Him (Yahweh)"?

In the context of the Psalm, which is effectively stating how much greater Yahweh is than everything else, I think it would be quite against the Psalmist to have him indicate that gods other than Yahweh had been bowed down to, especially as he states that those who bow down to idols are to be "ashamed".

It all depends on whether you have השתחוו as being either second or third person: second person would have it "You bow down", which would certainly turn it into an imperative; and third person would be "They bow down", which is how I have it above.

Looking at the other places in the Tanakh where השתחוו appears, it's the third rather than second person that is more common - Exo 11:8; 33:10; Isa 27:13; 60:14; Jer 8:2; Eze 46:3.

However in the Psalms, השתחוו is certainly more prevalent in second person, and does appear to be the only usage - Psa 29:2; 96:9; 99:5, 9.

So I don't see anything in the form of the word that would argue against your translation per se, but I just don't think it works right at all in the context of the Psalm.

Edit:

If I was to translate v6-9, I'd have it as: The heavens announce His righteousness, and all the peoples witness His glory. Be ashamed, all servants of an image, those who give praise concerning idols - all gods shall worship Him! Zion listens and is glad, and the daughters of Judah rejoice on the basis of your judgements, O Yahweh. Because You, Yahweh, Most High above all the earth, are highly exalted above all gods.

[Kenneth Greifer]

Ste Walch,

I think the idea is that the people are bragging that all of the other gods have bowed to their god because it is the highest god. It is unlikely that the writer is saying that other gods exist and have bowed to G-d, although in the past there were people in Israel who believed that G-d was the highest of many gods. This psalm could have been written by one of those people, but I doubt it. You might think it sounds better if gods bowed to G-d, but most of the psalms, except Psalm 82, seem to say that the other gods are just idols and are not alive, so they could not actually bow to Him.

Kenneth Greifer

[Kenneth Greifer]

I think that the translation might be a little different than what I first said.

"Let be ashamed all servants of an idol who are praising themselves (glorifying themselves) by (in) gods. 'All gods have bowed to it (to their idol)' she (Zion) heard and Zion rejoiced..."
I think it means that Zion knew that G-d did not bow to their idol or god, so they knew that they would be punished for saying that.

I think this might sound better.
It is also possible that the person who wrote this believed in many gods with G-d as the highest one like in Psalm 82, but I don't think that all of the people back then agreed with that belief.

Kenneth Greifer

[kwrandolph]

…It is unlikely that the writer is saying that other gods exist and have bowed to G-d, although in the past there were people in Israel who believed that G-d was the highest of many gods. This psalm could have been written by one of those people, but I doubt it. You might think it sounds better if gods bowed to G-d, but most of the psalms, except Psalm 82, seem to say that the other gods are just idols and are not alive, so they could not actually bow to Him.

Kenneth Greifer

For those of us who take Tanakh as the word of the one and only living God, we still talk about the “gods” of the peoples, even though we recognize that they are not gods. This is made explicit in verses such as Psalm 96:5.

As for the “gods” bowing to the true God, we have the image in 1 Samuel 5:3–4.

The LXX has αγγελοι “angels” and the DSS copy is missing that part of the verse.

Karl W. Randolph.

[Kenneth Greifer]

Karl,

Just because one idol bowed to G-d doesn't mean that is what the psalm is saying. I think the psalm could have been written by someone who did not believe in other gods besides G-d or someone who did believe in other gods with G-d as the highest one. I think it could be understood at least two ways. I don't think every psalm was written by a prophet who believed in only one G-d. I think Psalm 82 and maybe this one could have been written by people who believed in many gods with G-d as the highest one.

Kenneth Greifer

[Jemoh66]

Ken,

Your interpretation of this Psalm makes no sense. It makes more sense to command all gods to bow to the one and only God Yahweh. Why would someone speak of an unnamed idol, that all gods have bowed to except the God of Israel. It's convoluted. I am not understanding why you are stumbling at this simple meaning of the text. As Karl said, while we acknowledge that the idols are in fact empty things, Paul recognized that in fact when you worship an idol you sacrifice to demons. Also, see Naomi's words to Ruth and Orpah, "See, your sister-in-law has gone back to her people and to her gods; return after your sister-in-law." A person can speak about other gods while holding to the truth that there is only one true and living God the creator of heaven and earth.

[Kenneth Greifer]

Jonathan,

First of all, you don't have to be religious to understand that the Hebrew Bible often says that the other gods are just idols and not alive, except for Psalm 82 which sounds like the gods are alive.

Anyway, I think my translation shows that the writer was very negative about the other gods and did not necessarily believe they existed. It say the "servants of an idol" should be ashamed because of their glorifying themselves by or with gods by claiming that the other gods bowed to their god. That is pretty negative. It doesn't say they actually exist. Then it could quote them as saying "all gods have bowed to it (the idol)" or "bow to it all gods" which Zion hears and becomes happy because Zion knows G-d will punish them.

I don't think my translation says they have to exist, but that some people believed in them. In this psalm, some people believe their idol is higher than G-d and other gods, so they say something that Zion thinks will make G-d punish them.

I think the usual translation sounds like other gods will bow to G-d which sounds like they do exist. My translation would say that they don't actually exist because the people are only claiming that all gods bowed to it as part of their bragging about their god. I think you are misunderstanding my translation for some reason and seeing it as confirming the existence of other gods.

Kenneth Greifer

[S_Walch]

I think the idea is that the people are bragging that all of the other gods have bowed to their god because it is the highest god. It is unlikely that the writer is saying that other gods exist and have bowed to G-d

Well this is easily fixed in my translation above:

The heavens announce His righteousness, and all the peoples witness His glory. Be ashamed, all servants of an image, those who give praise concerning idols - all 'gods' shall worship Him! Zion listens and is glad, and the daughters of Judah rejoice on the basis of your judgements, O Yahweh. Because You, Yahweh, Most High above all the earth, are highly exalted above all 'gods'.

I believe the pronominal suffixes in the third person, masculine, singular form ו throughout the entirety of Psalm 97 all refer to Yahweh - v7 would be an exception if we took it as a proclamation of the servants of the image, which I don't think works for this very reason - the "Him"'s of Psalm 97 are Yahweh, and Yahweh only.

[Jemoh66]

I agree with your argument. It's an elegant argument with grounded in the text.

Ken,

Your argument is based on a false premise: that there are only two choices: on one hand your translation supports the nonexistence of gods, while the current translation supports their existence. This is the fallacy of the excluded middle. There is a third option. The fact that the writer says that the gods will bow down to YHWH, does not entail the actual reality of the other Gods. Nor does it suggest the psalmist believed those gods were actual beings. Take Elijah as a good example: he taunts the false prophets, “Cry aloud, for he is a god. Either he is musing, or he is relieving himself, or he is on a journey, or perhaps he is asleep and must be awakened(1 Kings 18:27).” But Elijah is actually in a contest to prove that Baal is not God, “How long will you go limping between two different opinions? If the LORD is God, follow him; but if Baal, then follow him (1 Kings 18:20)."