"The Morrow" מִֽמָּחֳרָ֔ת

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ivrit
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 10:11 pm

"The Morrow" מִֽמָּחֳרָ֔ת

Post by ivrit »

Hello,

I’ve come across some arguments that are making a case for morning to morning day reckoning. Much of it depends on the phrase “the morrow” מִֽמָּחֳרָ֔ת as in Gen. 19:34, Num 33:3, and others…
Gen 19:34 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.

Num 33:3 And they departed from Rameses in the first month, on the fifteenth day of the first month; on the morrow after the passover the children of Israel went out with an high hand in the sight of all the Egyptians.
Also “tomorrow”… מָחָ֑ר Ex. 16:23 and others.

After looking at all the instances of these and researching all that I can I’m wondering…

Are they really ironclad proof of a change in the scriptural day?

It looks to me that it could very well be a sort of relative term and not necessarily defining anything to do with an official Biblical day.

Also, as in the case of Gen. 19:34 above, the term אֶ֖מֶשׁ is also used referring to the previous night and is often translated “yesternight” which kind of/sort of strengthens this thought.

Thanks for your thoughts on this,

Richard Conaway
kwrandolph
Posts: 1531
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:51 am

Re: "The Morrow" מִֽמָּחֳרָ֔ת

Post by kwrandolph »

ivrit wrote:Hello,

I’ve come across some arguments that are making a case for morning to morning day reckoning. Much of it depends on the phrase “the morrow” מִֽמָּחֳרָ֔ת as in Gen. 19:34, Num 33:3, and others…
Gen 19:34 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.

Num 33:3 And they departed from Rameses in the first month, on the fifteenth day of the first month; on the morrow after the passover the children of Israel went out with an high hand in the sight of all the Egyptians.
Also “tomorrow”… מָחָ֑ר Ex. 16:23 and others.

After looking at all the instances of these and researching all that I can I’m wondering…

Are they really ironclad proof of a change in the scriptural day?
No.
ivrit wrote:It looks to me that it could very well be a sort of relative term and not necessarily defining anything to do with an official Biblical day.
You are right on this.
ivrit wrote:Also, as in the case of Gen. 19:34 above, the term אֶ֖מֶשׁ is also used referring to the previous night and is often translated “yesternight” which kind of/sort of strengthens this thought.

Thanks for your thoughts on this,

Richard Conaway
Don’t confuse translation for understanding within a language.

The ancient Hebrews counted days from evening to evening, while many of their neighbors counted from morning to morning. The English language is also based on a morning to morning day. So when translating from Hebrew to English, we need translate also in ways that would contradict the Biblical understanding in order to have a correct understanding in English. Translation ≠ within language understanding.

I hope this helps.

Karl W. Randolph.
ivrit
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 10:11 pm

Re: "The Morrow" מִֽמָּחֳרָ֔ת

Post by ivrit »

This "morrow" מִֽמָּחֳרָ֔ת thing is still bugging me...

From a Hebrew perspective. I am not interested in any theological fights/conflicts though different points of view of the Hebrew are welcome.

I have gone as far as I can with it. I've searched and searched and looked it up in a number of Biblical Hebrew dictionaries. One entry in BDB 4823 says the morrow "from the dawn to the evening of their following day".

And TWOT 1185 mahar "Of theological interest is the use of mahar to mean in future time e.g. Ex. 13:14 and Deut. 6:20 "When in time to come your sons ask you"

and mohorat Tomorrow. ..."on the morrow of" means after (Lev 23:11, 15. 16, Num. 33:3; Josh 5:11)"

I have not found it conclusively but it should be very closely related to if not derived from ahar I would think.

It seems pretty clear that it has nothing to do with a definition of a biblical "day" but nothing conclusive and may not ever be in the near future. I would like to nail it down a bit more solidly and clarify it Hebraically and get any differing opinions if any if possible.

This word and translation seems like it has not received a lot of thought. It seems like maybe it should be almost a figure of speech. But I can find nothing more than the two sources above beyond the typical translations.

This is the only deep place I can find to ask. I cannot find any other places to ask something like this. Are there any other forums or resources for this that you know of?

Thanks.
Jemoh66
Posts: 307
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:03 pm

Re: "The Morrow" מִֽמָּחֳרָ֔ת

Post by Jemoh66 »

I'm not sure I fully understand what you are after. With that said, the expression "on the morrow" is equivalent to "in the morning". It is very common for languages to use the word "morning" to mean "tomorrow" or "on the morrow" depending on the writer/speaker's perspective. Take Spanish, manyana means morning, but in a given context it is used to mean "tomorrow." African languages I am acquainted with do the same. If you want to link it to ahar, I don't think that's a stretch at all. Also, I find it interesting that it shares phonetic placement with BOQER, Bilabial-glottal-liquid. And furthermore, it is interesting that BOQER comes AHAR (EREBH in Genesis.

Let me digress a bit more. In Luyia, a Bantu language spoken on the Uganda border in Kenya, both words are from Edenic roots (a term I borrow from Isaac Moseson).
MUKAMBA, morning (in context, tomorrow)
MUNGOLOBE, evening

The MU prefix functions as a temporal location, maybe the same way M(A) works in MAHAR and MoHORAT. Notice:
1. KamBa is a reversal of BQR with a dropped liquid.
2. NGoLoBe is the same word as (eReBh, The NG corresponds to the Ayin, the L to the Resh, and the B is pronounced just like the Bhet of BH (bilabial fricative).
Jonathan E Mohler
Studying for a MA in Intercultural Studies
Baptist Bible Theological Seminary
Isaac Fried
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Re: "The Morrow" מִֽמָּחֳרָ֔ת

Post by Isaac Fried »

ממחרת = מי-מה-אחר-את

Isaac Fried, Boston University
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SteveMiller
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Re: "The Morrow" מִֽמָּחֳרָ֔ת

Post by SteveMiller »

It is ironclad that a Biblical day is morning to morning based on the 6 days of Gen 1.
Each day has this formula:
God does some work
then there was evening
then there was morning
a xxx'th day.

The 2nd day starts with its morning that ended the 1st day.
The 2nd day ends with the morning of the 3rd day.
etc.
The first day began when God said, Let there be light.
Sincerely yours,
Steve Miller
Detroit
http://www.voiceInWilderness.info
Honesty is the best policy. - George Washington (1732-99)
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