the word "satan"

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NorthernSchleper
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the word "satan"

Post by NorthernSchleper »

I have heard that, in the entire Tanakh, "satan" always appears as "ha satan"--that is "the satan" and that it is at best a title, not a proper name so that even Jewish translators who write it in Job as "Satan" are technically incorrect. Is this view correct?
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SteveMiller
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Re: the word "satan"

Post by SteveMiller »

NorhernSchleper,
1Chron 21:1 has satan without the definite article.
As far as I know, there are no person names in Biblical Hebrew that appear with a definite article, but satan may be an exception.
There are many place names that have the definite article. For example "the Jordan" "the Havilah".

P.S. - rules of the forum require that you sign your posts with your first and last names at least. The easiest way to do that is to put it in your signature in your profile.
Sincerely yours,
Steve Miller
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http://www.voiceInWilderness.info
Honesty is the best policy. - George Washington (1732-99)
S_Walch
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Re: the word "satan"

Post by S_Walch »

The Hebrew שָׂטָן means ' adversary' or 'accuser', so yes, technically, he isn't 'named' Satan so to speak, but is rather referred to as 'the adversary' or 'the accuser'. The one and only exception to this (for when it is a name, rather than just meaning 'an adversary') is as Steve noted above - 1 Chron 21:1. It may be that by the time of the composition of Chronicles (one of the last books to be written in the Tanakh), the adversary had finally been personified as 'Satan', though I would hazard a guess that there may be an error there in the MT of 1 Chronicles.

We get 'Satan' through a long history of transliteration from one language to another: Hebrew שָׂטָן became the Greek σατανᾶς, which became the Latin Satan, from which we have it in English.

A true English equivalent for the Hebrew שָׂטָן is 'the adversary' or 'the Devil' (though even 'the Devil' is a transliteration of sorts from another language - ὁ διάβολος/ho diabolos).
Ste Walch
Saboi

Re: the word "satan"

Post by Saboi »

את־דבתם > τόν διάβολον (Genesis 37:2)
דבת > διαβολή (Numbers 31:21)
לשטן > ψιθυρίζειν (Zechariah 3:1)
ויסת > ἐψιθύρισε (2 Samuel 24:1)
פתית > ἠπάτησάς (Jeremiah 20:7)
שטנה > ψιθύρισμα (Ezra 4:6)
השטן > ὁ ψιθυριστής (Job 1:6)

ψίθυρος, ψιδόνες > שטן > σατανᾶς

ψιθυριστής "whisperer, epithet of Hermes" cf. Mercurius Susurrio

2 Samuel 24:1
The anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.

1 Chronicles 21:1
Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

מלקרת
> Mercurius 'the trickster'
> Loki 'the trickster'
> Hermes 'the trickster'
S_Walch
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Re: the word "satan"

Post by S_Walch »

Saboi wrote:את־דבתם > τόν διάβολον (Genesis 37:2)
LXX has for this: ψόγον; not "τόν διάβολον".
דבת > διαβολή (Numbers 31:21)
There's no דבת in Numbers 31:21.
לשטן > ψιθυρίζειν (Zechariah 3:1)
LXX: τοῦ ἀντικεῖσθαι αὐτῷ for the correct לשטנו. ψιθυρίζειν means "to whisper", which has nothing to do with Zech 3:1.

I did bother checking the rest: all but the Jer 20:6 had no correlation between Hebrew and Greek. Your entire post is, unfortunately, utter nonsense.

Where are you getting such absurdity?
Ste Walch
Saboi

Re: the word "satan"

Post by Saboi »

The Septuagint generally translates words into its synonyms rather then the homologue, I did made the mistake with Genesis 37:2 i translated into an adjective, rather then a feminine noun.

Genesis 37:2 - את־דבתם > τήν διαβολήν (Corrected).
Numbers 13:32 - דבת > διαβολήν
Numbers 14:36 - דבה > διαβολάς

The unifying root is בלל, נפל (βάλλω, πίπτω)
_ Psalm 92:11 - בלתי > βαλλήσω, βαλέω. "bathe"
_ Ecclesiastes 5:6 - חבל > καταβάλῃ "overthrow"
_ Hosea 7:8 - יתבולל > συμβάλλει "jumble up together"
_ Exodus 22:26 - חבל תחבל > συμβόλαιον συμβαλεῖς "lend money on bond, acknowledgement of a loan "

שטן
The Ψ is absent in the Phoenician and Latin alphabet and interchanged with ש and Θ came from ט, the Latin is spelled with an initial "s" rather then the "Ψ" or "ש". The -ρως drops out in Phoenician as a prosthetic. cf. דשא/δασύς > שעיר/σάτυρος.

ל
כסא = כרסא = κλισία "throne"
שאנן = שלאנן = γαληνόν "calm"
יהוה = Παιάν = Ἀπόλλων (pa-ja-wo-ne) "paean, healer"
אל = θιύς (θι, ιθ, il) = διος, θεός "god"
הבעל = ὁ πόσις "el esposo"
S_Walch
Posts: 343
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 4:41 pm

Re: the word "satan"

Post by S_Walch »

Saboi wrote:I did made the mistake with Genesis 37:2 i translated into an adjective, rather then a feminine noun.
You translated? What's you translating something got to do with how a Hebrew word is understood?

Guess that does answer my question of where you're getting your absurdity.
Ste Walch
Saboi

Re: the word "satan"

Post by Saboi »

I being studying Biblical Hebrew alongside the Septuagint, to understand how Jews were able to produce such a translation, an incredible feat of the time, eventually i learned to translate Biblical Hebrew into Ancient Greek, the main flaw with the Septuagint is the dialect used, quite removed from Doric that is much closer to Phoenician, hence the need to re-translate.

Theologians tend study Biblical Hebrew as a language isolate, but this was once the most widely spoken language around the ancient Mediterranean, a Jew during Hellenistic time could write a letter to Carthage and the Carthaginians could read it. So the language is foremost, Phoenician. With that in mind, All the words in Biblical Hebrew have a wider unifying Mediterranean meaning and root.

חָלָב "cha-lav" ⇋ gá-la ⇋ glágos ⇋ lacte ⇋ lactose (Milk).
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