differentiating vocal stress

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Isaac Fried
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Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:32 pm

differentiating vocal stress

Postby Isaac Fried » Sun Jun 25, 2017 11:18 pm

Ps. 102:14-15 (13-14)
אַתָּה תָקוּם תְּרַחֵם צִיּוֹן כִּי עֵת לְחֶנְנָהּ כִּי בָא מוֹעֵד. כִּי רָצוּ עֲבָדֶיךָ אֶת אֲבָנֶיהָ וְאֶת עֲפָרָהּ יְחֹנֵנוּ
KJV: "Thou shalt arise, and have mercy upon Zion: for the time to favour her, yea, the set time, is come. For thy servants take pleasure in her stones, and favour the dust thereof."
Here רָצוּ = רץ-הוּא is from the act רצה RACAH, 'want, wish, long, yearn, crave, desire.'
Jer. 23:21
לֹא שָׁלַחְתִּי אֶת הַנְּבִאִים וְהֵם רָצוּ לֹא דִבַּרְתִּי אֲלֵיהֶם וְהֵם נִבָּאוּ
KJV: "I did not send these prophets, yet they have run with their message; I did not speak to them, yet they have prophesied."
Here רָצוּ = רץ-הוּא is from the act רוּץ RUC, 'run'.
To differentiate between these two רָצוּ I read the first raCu, and the second rAcu.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

Isaac Fried
Posts: 860
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:32 pm

Re: differentiating vocal stress

Postby Isaac Fried » Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:13 pm

Note that רַצְנוּ = רץ-אנוּ is 'we, אנוּ, have run', from the root רוּץ RUC. But, רָצִינוּ = רץ-היא-אנוּ is 'we wanted', from the act רצה RACAH. Here the end filler H of the act is preserved as a full fledged היא, with היא-אנוּ referring both to the performer of the act.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

Isaac Fried
Posts: 860
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:32 pm

Re: differentiating vocal stress

Postby Isaac Fried » Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:39 pm

Then, for the other persons performing the act רוּץ RUC, 'run'
רַצְתִּי = רץ-אתי, with אתי for אני
רַצְתָּ = רץ-אתה
רַצְּּתְּ = רץ-את
רָץ
רָצָה = רץ-היא, to be read RAcah
רַצְנוּ = רץ-אנוּ
רַצְתֶּם = רץ-אתם
רַצְתֶּן = רץ-אתן
רָצוּ = רץ-הוּא
, not רצם nor רצהם.
רָצָם =רָץ-הם is 'their runner', and רָצֵיהֶם = רץ-היא-היא-הם is 'their runners'. in the possessive אָתֶם is replaced by אָכֶם: רָצְכֶם =רץ-אכם

Isaac Fried, Boston University

Isaac Fried
Posts: 860
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:32 pm

Re: differentiating vocal stress

Postby Isaac Fried » Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:34 pm

In this juncture we should mention the habit of Hebrew speakers to replace the schwa in an initial non-radical letter by an E, for example,
בְּרָכָה, 'benediction', from the root ברך, being read BRAKAH.
but
בְּרוּחַ, 'in a puff', from רוּחַ with a prefixed formative letter B, being read BERUAK.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

ralph
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:20 am

Re: differentiating vocal stress

Postby ralph » Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:22 am

Biblical hebrew already puts the stress where it puts the stress.. your suggested changes( changing stress), would be very unbiblical. (And also in a synagogue if somebody was reading from a torah scroll they'd keep the stress where it is in the bible). Also when you say "hebrew speakers" pronouncing shwa as eh, you mean modern israeli hebrew speakers, speaking modern israeli hebrew, again nothing to do with biblical hebrew, and also a person in an orthodox synagogue reading a torah scroll would usually use traditional pronunciation of shva, shva na like the uh in banana, which is as somebody would do if they were pronouncing biblical hebrew, not the eh of modern israeli hebrew.

Isaac Fried
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Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:32 pm

Re: differentiating vocal stress

Postby Isaac Fried » Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:13 pm

Ralph,
We have just read in this week's haftorah
Jer 4:2
וְנִשְׁבַּ֨עְתָּ֙ חַי־יְהוָ֔ה בֶּֽאֱמֶ֖ת בְּמִשְׁפָּ֣ט וּבִצְדָקָ֑ה וְהִתְבָּ֥רְכוּ ב֛וֹ גּוֹיִ֖ם וּב֥וֹ יִתְהַלָּֽלוּ
in which וְהִתְבָּ֥רְכוּ is with a Mercha under the letter bet. To be read vehitbArku with the stress on the BA?

In Gen. 22:18 we read
וְהִתְבָּֽרְכ֣וּ בְזַרְעֲךָ֔ כֹּ֖ל גּוֹיֵ֣י הָאָ֑רֶץ עֵ֕קֶב אֲשֶׁ֥ר שָׁמַ֖עְתָּ בְּקֹלִֽי
in which וְהִתְבָּֽרְכ֣וּ is with a Munach under the letter kaf (pronounced חף) and a meteg under the letter bet. To be read vehitbareKu with the second schwa being mobile, NA, and the main stress put on the KU?

Also in Gen. 26:4
וְהִרְבֵּיתִ֤י אֶֽת־זַרְעֲךָ֙ כְּכֽוֹכְבֵ֣י הַשָּׁמַ֔יִם וְנָֽתַתִּ֣י לְזַרְעֲךָ֔ אֵ֥ת כָּל־הָֽאֲרָצֹ֖ת הָאֵ֑ל וְהִתְבָּֽרְכ֣וּ בְזַרְעֲךָ֔ כֹּ֖ל גּוֹיֵ֥י הָאָֽרֶץ

The same word stressed differently?

Isaac Fried, Boston University

Isaac Fried
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Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:32 pm

Re: differentiating vocal stress

Postby Isaac Fried » Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:41 pm

Having recited today chapter 40 Isaiah I encountered another example. Here it is in Is. 40:24
אַ֣ף בַּל־נִטָּ֗עוּ אַ֚ף בַּל זֹרָ֔עוּ אַ֛ף בַּל שֹׁרֵ֥שׁ בָּאָ֖רֶץ גִּזְעָ֑ם וְגַם נָשַׁ֤ף בָּהֶם֙ וַיִּבָ֔שׁוּ וּסְעָרָ֖ה כַּקַּ֥שׁ תִּשָּׂאֵֽם
KJV: "Yea, they shall not be planted; yea, they shall not be sown: yea, their stock shall not take root in the earth: and he shall also blow upon them, and they shall wither, and the whirlwind shall take them away as stubble."
This שֹׁרֵ֥שׁ, being read shoREsh, is a verb, 'take root', to distinguish from שֹׁרֶשׁ, being read SHoresh, 'a root'.

I suspect that the tsere, two dots placed horizontally, is a compromise marking for a patah, a short horizontal stroke. So, שֹׁרֵ֥שׁ is possibly a variation on שֹׁרַ֥שׁ.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

ralph
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:20 am

Re: differentiating vocal stress

Postby ralph » Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:15 am

@Isaac

I understand it to be the case that often old manuscricpts don't have all the metegs we have in our tanach today that are published by religious jewish publishers.

i'm really interested where you got that tanach text from, with all the cantillation and metegs.. like the ones used in religious jewish publications, for example the one here doesn't have all that https://www.blueletterbible.org/wlc/gen/22/18/s_22018 I've been interested in seeing an online text like the one you use

I found this one but it doesn't have a meteg on hayta gen 1:1
http://etnachta.co.il/tanach.php?book=% ... AA&perek=1

I found this one
http://shabat-shalom.info/books/Tanach-he/t/index.htm
and it has that meteg, but it doesn't have the whole tanach


regarding your examples of Jer 4:2 and Gen 22:18 , the rules for the shva were formulated quite late, they were formulated by elia levita .. And the relevant rule from what I understand, is if (after reversing any accent shift from a 'nasog achor', and after reversing any vowel change caused by a suffix - neither of those occur here), If the vowel preceding the shva is a long vowel without primary stress, then the shva is vocal.

In your example, in both cases the kamatz is a kamatz gadol, so a long vowel. In one case that kamatz gadol has primary stress, in the other case it doesn't. So that explains the shva being vocal or silent. But I don't know why the stress shifted..

Isaac Fried
Posts: 860
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:32 pm

Re: differentiating vocal stress

Postby Isaac Fried » Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:49 am

Ralph,

Thanks for the links! I take my quotes of the tanakh from

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/i/t/t0.htm

Isaac Fried, Boston University

ralph
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:20 am

Re: differentiating vocal stress

Postby ralph » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:19 pm

Isaac Fried wrote:Ralph,

Thanks for the links! I take my quotes of the tanakh from

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/i/t/t0.htm


Thanks.. I notice that link you give has no cantillation marks so wouldn't be it.. But I searched for mechon mamre cantillation marks and found this link

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/c/ct/c0.htm

That tanach has the markings


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