Is the usage of מוֹצָאָה as "origins" extant outside of Micah 5:2?

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Ruminator
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Re: Is the usage of מוֹצָאָה as "origins" extant outside of Micah 5:2?

Post by Ruminator »

SteveMiller wrote:William,
I agree that "origin" is not a valid meaning. 2Sam 3:25 seems to refer to military goings out.

I took a look at 2 Sam 3:25 and indeed, that is a very relevant example. Thank you.
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William Ross
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tian777
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Re: Is the usage of מוֹצָאָה as "origins" extant outside of Micah 5:2?

Post by tian777 »

Thank you Dr. Kirk. I had noticed that both the resources that you are recommending are also mentioned by Brotzman and Tully at the start of Chapter 8 of their Old Testament Textual Criticism. A practical introduction. in which they deal with the critical apparatus found in the Book of Ruth in BHS. I had been reluctant to purchase one or both of the resources, but with this confirmation by you, I am convinced that it will be the way for me to go. Thanks again for your assistance.
Tian Hattingh
I'm too blessed to be stressed
Kenneth Greifer
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Re: Is the usage of מוֹצָאָה as "origins" extant outside of Micah 5:2?

Post by Kenneth Greifer »

If you are willing to consider a very unusual alternative translation of Micah 5:1 and the word usually translated as "his origins" or "his goings forth", you could look at my self-published book's excerpts in Volume 4, pages 28 (bottom) to 34. I think the quote is connected to Micah 4:8 and the word really says "his caused to go forth ones" (his brought forth ones) hophal feminine plural present tense or participle if you prefer that. I translate Micah 4:8 differently and show that it might be connected to Micah 5:1. These alternative translations are for people who like very unusual alternative translations.

I think Micah 5:1 could say "and will come (to) Bethlehem Ephrata a youth to be among the thousands of Judah. From you to Me, he will go forth to be a ruler in Israel, and his caused to go forth ones (his brought forth ones) are from the past, from days of old..."

5:1וְאַתָּ֞ה בֵּֽית־לֶ֣חֶם אֶפְרָ֗תָה צָעִיר֙ לִֽהְיוֹת֙ בְּאַלְפֵ֣י יְהוּדָ֔ה מִמְּךָ֙ לִ֣י יֵצֵ֔א לִֽהְי֥וֹת מוֹשֵׁ֖ל בְּיִשְׂרָאֵ֑ל וּמוֹצָאֹתָ֥יו מִקֶּ֖דֶם מִימֵ֥י עוֹלָֽם׃

My site is http://www.hebrewbiblequotes.com/

I think the brought forth ones in Micah 5:1 are the daughter of Zion and the first government or kingdom that are mentioned in Micah 4:8.
Kenneth Greifer
If you are interested in an alternative to mainstream textual criticism of the Hebrew Bible, you should look at my site:
http://www.hebrewbiblequotes.com/
Ruminator
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Re: Is the usage of מוֹצָאָה as "origins" extant outside of Micah 5:2?

Post by Ruminator »

Kenneth, I don't know Hebrew so I'm not qualified to evaluate your work. However, if anyone else here has some feedback I would love to hear it.

Congrats on completing your book!
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William Ross
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SteveMiller
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Re: Is the usage of מוֹצָאָה as "origins" extant outside of Micah 5:2?

Post by SteveMiller »

Tian,
Good question on the BHS. I don't know the answer, but I'll give it a shot, and hopefully someone will comment who knows more and we can both learn.

From BibleWorks BHS Apparatus

footnote b:
b prb probabiliter dl dele(ndum) etc; delet, -ent etc, ex a‎δ
The bold stuff is BHS, and the other stuff is supplied by BibleWorks
prb means probably; dl means delete
so it means that the Hebrew word לִֽהְיֹות֙‌ should probably be deleted.
I don't know what the ex a‎δ means. Neither are in the Simplified Guide to BHS or the beginning of BHS.

footnote c:
c frt fortasse l lege(ndum) etc ‏יֶלֶד‎ cf confer(endum) etc 2a‎β; an exc excidit, -erunt etc vb verbum postיצא‎?
frt means possibly
l means to be read
cf is compare to
I don't know what 2a‎β is.
So the first part of footnote b means, Possibly the Hebrew word ‎ לִ֣י should be read as ‏יֶלֶד‎.
That doesn't make sense to me, so I probably have it wrong.

an means or
exc means dropped out
vb means word
post means after
So the 2nd part of footnote c means, Or a word was after ‏יצא‎, but dropped out.
Sincerely yours,
Steve Miller
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Honesty is the best policy. - George Washington (1732-99)
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